Evil_Dragon Wrote:

Hashiriya Wrote:well i'm making my name Blakeー＞ブレイクー＞舞麗狗

"Pretty dancing dog"? I'm pretty sure I can't unsee that image.

Lol, or
Dancing Pwetty Dog
The Pretty Hound that Danced
Shakin' Dawg Beauty

well it was better than using 無麗狗<-ブレイク wasn't it? (The No Beauty Dog) heh

Musashi Wrote:There's no such thing as the 'ideal' world, that's just what you visualise it would be. You seem to be missing the point. [...]
Your pronunciation doesn't exist in another country and people have difficulties pronouncing it simply because the sound is alien to them. [...]

I'm not sure that I'm the one missing the point here. This is a discussion, which means that things change, ideas evolve, and opinions vary. If you would re-read the post you just quoted you'll see I conceded on the idea of separate scripts. What is a script other than a way to represent sound blocks? Sure, write my "approximate-name" in your own script if it helps you. People can't even read my name when I write it out in English. However if you want a relationship with me, ask me how to say my name and learn it.
Pronunciation exists wherever people bother to have fun exploring the capabilities of their mouthes and ears. Every human can make the same sounds as every other human.

As far as the ideal world, obviously there is such a thing. 200 years ago in America you could get rocks tied to your ankles and tossed in a lake if you hung out with a black cat. That is not ideal. Nowadays it's better. Thus it is more ideal than before. Nowadays you can get stoned to death if you are a woman and a dude says he saw you out without your headscarf. Hopefully that will change and then the world will be a more ideal place.

As in any problem in math that incrementally approaches a limit, it grows closer and closer as time goes on. Sure it may never get there but eventually we just use the equal sign anyway. Just because a limit problem never reaches it's value no matter what number you pick doesn't mean that I'm just visualizing that limit, that it doesn't really exist. It's still there tantalizing you with it's "idealness" as you draw closer and closer.

kazelee Wrote:Names have meaning. By using "translated" kanji all you are doing is selecting symbolic representation for what's already there. By using phonetically translated kanji you are doing no worse than what you do when you write your name in katana.

I like this idea. However, my name's meaning is a simple color. Thus if I translated my name's meaning into Japanese it'd be something like 白いsan. When somebody calls out my name, or I see it written in English, I don't think of a color. The first thing that pops into my mind is me. There isn't really a kanji that represents "me", but there is a 3 syllable sound cluster that does. So I guess phonetically writing it in kanji would be fine with me, it feels closer than translating the meanings.

I understand that Japanese are more tied to the meanings of the kanji in their name than I am to the meaning of the letters or words in mine. My neighbor is at least, or so she explained to me. Thus, in that spirit:

If I got a hanko with kanji on it I'd pick 圭 (けい) so probably 紫圭.

welldone101 Wrote:Every human can make the same sounds as every other human.

Yea that applies when you're growing up. Ask an adult native Chinese person to pronounce a rolling R and you'll see the point. And by the time they got it, you might have received ur stimulus package already. There goes your people-who-I-have-a-more-than-25-seconds-relationship-with.

welldone101 Wrote:Sure, write my "approximate-name" in your own script if it helps you. People can't even read my name when I write it out in English. However if you want a relationship with me, ask me how to say my name and learn it.

You're too selfcentered and with that kind of attitude? *rolling my eyes, Who wants a relationship with you?! mr. White

Sorry, I couldn't bother to read the rest of it cuz it's crap.

welldone101 Wrote:

kazelee Wrote:Names have meaning. By using "translated" kanji all you are doing is selecting symbolic representation for what's already there. By using phonetically translated kanji you are doing no worse than what you do when you write your name in katana.

I like this idea. However, my name's meaning is a simple color. Thus if I translated my name's meaning into Japanese it'd be something like 白いsan.

Or just Shiro.... おいぃ、白さん. Sounds kinda cool if you ask me!

welldone101 Wrote:When somebody calls out my name, or I see it written in English, I don't think of a color. The first thing that pops into my mind is me. There isn't really a kanji that represents "me", but there is a 3 syllable sound cluster that does.

This is only because you haven't internalized the name. Enough exposure to the translated version and it wouldn't be much different from how you came to be familiar with the current form of your name. A three syllable cluster, truthfully, is no more closer to "you" than a 6 letter word, or a 2 syllable shift.

Having said this, I will add, I can respect how you feel on the issue. How you feel about it is what really matters.

kazelee Wrote:This is only because you haven't internalized the name. Enough exposure to the translated version and it wouldn't be much different from how you came to be familiar with the current form of your name. A three syllable cluster, truthfully, is no more closer to "you" than a 6 letter word, or a 2 syllable shift.

Interesting. I could also go with 真白san... is that being egotistical (though maybe accurate...)?

Musashi Wrote:You're too selfcentered and with that kind of attitude? *rolling my eyes, Who wants a relationship with you?! mr. White
Sorry, I couldn't bother to read the rest of it cuz it's crap.

I'm not the one spawning forum posts so that I can post my own handwriting and have people to talk to. Just because people don't point out your obvious deficiencies doesn't mean you shouldn't take a look in the mirror every once in a while.
I used the words "me" and "I" in this set of posts rather than "one" and "people" specifically because I know there are many varied opinions on the issue and I didn't want to unintentionally overlay my personal feelings onto the general populace.

Just cause you don't like math is no reason to call it crap! Math built that computer you are using.

No worries about the relationship; I don't think we'll ever be in a position where I'll need you to actually pronounce my name. I'm only in this thread now to talk with Kazelee.

welldone101 Wrote:No worries about the relationship; I don't think we'll ever be in a position where I'll need you to actually pronounce my name. I'm only in this thread now to talk with Kazelee.

Hey, hey now! Leave me out of the lovers' spat. LOL.

Sorry had to do it . Common, lighten up you two.

This is an interesting thread, I actually decided to get my seal done in kanji 10 months ago when I moved here. I did it because my name is too common and there are plenty of トーマス seals on the market. Therefore I went with 東升 in order to make it easier for Japanese people to pronounce right away. I did however consider 東真守 for a bit for fun but decided against it. It's also an easy way to start up a conversation with store/bank/etc staff when you have to use the seal. However, the kanji on the seal is just for individuality and all official documents have both my real name and katakana name without kanji.

Sorry, I didn't hand make mine (that's pretty awesome you guys). I had mine laser cut from a giant hunk of plastic goo by some guy in a store.

@musashi

but there is nothing wrong with the meaning?

aaronvanvalen Wrote:@Musashi, why would I not use 論 in my name? Especially since the pronunciation is spot on.

No, sorry, it is most definitely *not* spot on. It's in the ballpark, but it's not the same, and never will be until you change the pronunciation of Aaron to fit Japanese phonetics. 論 corresponds to r-o-n sort of the way that lime corresponds to lemon. Similar fruit, but not identical at all. Until you understand this you may have a hard time picking up Japanese, and a hard time with Japanese people who are not going to be able to understand you, even though you think you are saying or writing something that they should easily understand.

One more time: r-o-n is not 論. It's close, but it ain't. One of them is going to have to give. By that, I mean you are going to have to give, and accept that the vast majority of Japanese you meet are not going to be able to render the sound you identify as your name. It will be close enough, and you will eventually get used to it, but it won't be even remotely "spot on". Most Westerners with either an 'L' or an 'R' in their names are going to have to settle for "close counts in hand grenades and nuclear war" when it comes to how Japanese will pronounce those names. Be glad you don't have both, and that they are not adjacent or reoccur more than once.

welldone101 Wrote:I'm not the one spawning forum posts so that I can post my own handwriting and have people to talk to.

Err, I've started more than enough other threads apart from that ONE about handwriting. And ofcourse one creates post to 'talk' to other people, that's why it's called a forum in case you haven't noticed, duh, what are you doing here then? Looking for porn? At least I'm providing threads, what have you done lately besides stalking me, creep

welldone101 Wrote:Just because people don't point out your obvious deficiencies doesn't mean you shouldn't take a look in the mirror every once in a while.
I used the words "me" and "I" in this set of posts rather than "one" and "people" specifically because I know there are many varied opinions on the issue and I didn't want to unintentionally overlay my personal feelings onto the general populace.

Just cause you don't like math is no reason to call it crap! Math built that computer you are using.

No worries about the relationship; I don't think we'll ever be in a position where I'll need you to actually pronounce my name. I'm only in this thread now to talk with Kazelee.

Puliez, I don't need ignorant people like you to point out my 'deficiencies' you don't have the 資格 for that. And it was never about what I like don't like since ur entitled to do whatever. Just the fact that u were so selfcentered and WANTED people to pronounce your name, written in YOUR alphabet with YOUR pronunciation and not wanting to change any for the sake of your own self. That was the arrogance I pointed out which you won't admit. But that's ok, I wasted more than enough of my time on u already.

dat5h Wrote:Sorry, I didn't hand make mine (that's pretty awesome you guys). I had mine laser cut from a giant hunk of plastic goo by some guy in a store.

Lol, I also didn't hand made mine. The stone was too hard so my 書道 teacher did it

aaronvanvalen Wrote:@musashi

but there is nothing wrong with the meaning?

Het wordt meestal geassocierd met argument, discussieren, enz. vandaar Misschien zijn er wat betere opties anders?

Musashi Wrote:Puliez, I don't need ignorant people like you to point out my 'deficiencies' you don't have the 資格 for that. And it was never about what I like don't like since ur entitled to do whatever. Just the fact that u were so selfcentered and WANTED people to pronounce your name, written in YOUR alphabet with YOUR pronunciation and not wanting to change any for the sake of your own self. That was the arrogance I pointed out which you won't admit. But that's ok, I wasted more than enough of my time on u already.

I'm quite interested in a number of the themes in this thread but it's sad and depressing to read posts where two people are bickering. Even if you think it's justified, calling people ignorant, self-centred and arrogant is particularly bad I think. I think that there is an interesting discussion to be had in the points you're both making but the aggression turns it into something ugly. I, and I'm sure many others, would greatly appreciate it if the points on both sides could be made politely.

I don't really care about hankos, but I'll be needing one for a seperate bank account (I'm aware of accounts/banks not needing hankos). So count me in the hanko club.

Wally Wrote:

aaronvanvalen Wrote:@Musashi, why would I not use 論 in my name? Especially since the pronunciation is spot on.

No, sorry, it is most definitely *not* spot on. It's in the ballpark, but it's not the same, and never will be until you change the pronunciation of Aaron to fit Japanese phonetics. 論 corresponds to r-o-n sort of the way that lime corresponds to lemon. Similar fruit, but not identical at all. Until you understand this you may have a hard time picking up Japanese, and a hard time with Japanese people who are not going to be able to understand you, even though you think you are saying or writing something that they should easily understand.

One more time: r-o-n is not 論. It's close, but it ain't. One of them is going to have to give. By that, I mean you are going to have to give, and accept that the vast majority of Japanese you meet are not going to be able to render the sound you identify as your name. It will be close enough, and you will eventually get used to it, but it won't be even remotely "spot on". Most Westerners with either an 'L' or an 'R' in their names are going to have to settle for "close counts in hand grenades and nuclear war" when it comes to how Japanese will pronounce those names. Be glad you don't have both, and that they are not adjacent or reoccur more than once.

ok man.

Wally Wrote:

aaronvanvalen Wrote:@Musashi, why would I not use 論 in my name? Especially since the pronunciation is spot on.

No, sorry, it is most definitely *not* spot on. It's in the ballpark, but it's not the same, and never will be until you change the pronunciation of Aaron to fit Japanese phonetics. 論 corresponds to r-o-n sort of the way that lime corresponds to lemon. Similar fruit, but not identical at all. Until you understand this you may have a hard time picking up Japanese, and a hard time with Japanese people who are not going to be able to understand you, even though you think you are saying or writing something that they should easily understand.

One more time: r-o-n is not 論. It's close, but it ain't. One of them is going to have to give. By that, I mean you are going to have to give, and accept that the vast majority of Japanese you meet are not going to be able to render the sound you identify as your name. It will be close enough, and you will eventually get used to it, but it won't be even remotely "spot on". Most Westerners with either an 'L' or an 'R' in their names are going to have to settle for "close counts in hand grenades and nuclear war" when it comes to how Japanese will pronounce those names. Be glad you don't have both, and that they are not adjacent or reoccur more than once.

Sheesh... What's your problem?

wrightak Wrote:

Musashi Wrote:Puliez, I don't need ignorant people like you to point out my 'deficiencies' you don't have the 資格 for that. And it was never about what I like don't like since ur entitled to do whatever. Just the fact that u were so selfcentered and WANTED people to pronounce your name, written in YOUR alphabet with YOUR pronunciation and not wanting to change any for the sake of your own self. That was the arrogance I pointed out which you won't admit. But that's ok, I wasted more than enough of my time on u already.

I'm quite interested in a number of the themes in this thread but it's sad and depressing to read posts where two people are bickering. Even if you think it's justified, calling people ignorant, self-centred and arrogant is particularly bad I think. I think that there is an interesting discussion to be had in the points you're both making but the aggression turns it into something ugly. I, and I'm sure many others, would greatly appreciate it if the points on both sides could be made politely.

Yea I don't know how it got into that, it was just a simple post-your-name-and-picture-of-your-seal thread, then that d...err...let's return to the original topic

(slightly de-railing the thread again)

i fail to see what's the big deal with names. i mean, the "sounds" we call name and the written "words" we call names are in fact two distict (and related merely by convention) signs, both refering exclusively to the person who uses that name. chosing kanji to represent your name is in no way a form of translation, it is in fact giving yourself a new name. then again, what's wrong with giving yourself a new name, it is merely a sign, a token to be used in speech to refer to you. i, myself, have had at least four different names in the last two years (though not legally, only in the real world).

(slightly closer to the intended topic)

so, in order to have a (legal) kanji name in japan you have to 1)come from a country that allows you to have kanji in your name or 2)become a japanese citizen, right?

what do they do with people with non-japanese names? do they katakana-ize it? do they let you keep your name (be it Pérez, Пётр, or even ابو كريم محمد الجميل بن نضال بن عبد العزيز الفلسطيني?) <- ok, ok, no arab would be dare to bear one of the names of god, but you get the idea.

I wonder what I would do if I moved to Japan. Actually, I already wonder what name I should use when I'm writing to people online, assuming I don't just write my name in English. Here are some thoughts on my name:

Katakana:

In Japanese class, my teacher made my name リバース　ドナルド, usually just リバース。 I think the only time I used my first name was signing a calligraphy painting. Now that I think about it, リバース isn't accurate, it should be more like リバーズ (z sound instead of s sound) or even リヴァーズ　(va instead of ba) or so put the second r back in: りヴァルズ and then finally, instead of va maybe it should be ve: リヴぇルズ but that seems like a mouthful.

Roman letters: My name also has 6 letters each (if you ignore my middle name) so that would work well for one similar to wrightak's!

Kanji: I was wondering about the idea of using a name, or what it would be, to do a literal translation. My last name at least has a literal meaning. Rivers could just be 川. My great-grandfather's name was actually changed from Finnish, Jokela, meaning river (joki) + place (la) (e.g. riverside), which apparently was the type of name given when Swedish names were switched to Finnish, so I wonder if there is an even earlier version of my name. Looking at it that way, maybe 川辺 would be valid. I did a search and there's a pretty cute model with that last name, so it's real anyway. Donald doesn't really mean anything in English literally, but according to baby-name books it means something like World Ruler. But 世界の支配者 seems a little wordy, I don't know if there's a given-name equivalent that would be usable.

Donald - how about 導難流道... umm, guiding a flowing route through difficulty?! sort of like world ruler...

導難流道

That's interesting. I'll have to keep that in mind. Would you just pronounce that as ドナルド ? Using rikaichan (plugin translator for firefox) I can get どう　なん　る　（　or りゅう　） どう　but I guess with names, the readings can vary?

My surname has 3 L's and a silent A.. tbh im expecting to be turned away at the airport lol

Infact because of the silent A most people in England pronounce and spell my surname wrong, so much so, hearing my name butchered by foreigners doesn't even bother me anymore. I'm desensitized to it.

マーク グレダヒル The Japanese pronounciation of my surname is a lot closer than how most English people manage tbh. Gleadhill (silent A )

I can't say i'd even want a Kanji name. My name is my name, it has no particular meaning. So affixing characters to my name isnt something i'd be willing to do. As much as I love learning Japanese and can't wait to go for a year in 2010, I am British. End of as far as im concerned.

> My name is my name, it has no particular meaning

Doesn't it mean "gleoda, glida", kite (the bird of prey), and "hyll", hill http://www.surnamedb.com/surname.aspx?name=Gledhill

Names usually come from somewhere... usually where someone lived, what they did, or "son of X", or something.

drivers99 Wrote:> My name is my name, it has no particular meaning

Doesn't it mean "gleoda, glida", kite (the bird of prey), and "hyll", hill http://www.surnamedb.com/surname.aspx?name=Gledhill

Names usually come from somewhere... usually where someone lived, what they did, or "son of X", or something.

Yeah, I've read that as roughly where my surname is from. But being British, I've never associated my name with meaning anything. same as everyone here. Masons. no doubts at somepoint were Masons, Carpenters were at some juncture Carpenters, but the names hold no relevance anymore in modern Britain.
So assigning characters based on a meaning long since forgotten seems a little bit silly in my eyes

Maybe if British culture was different they'd hold some significance, but our culture being the way it is doesn't lead to that any longer.

Nice of you to look that up tho. Thanks did make for a interesting read.

If I took a literal translation of my name: 道造・神人 (ちぞう・しんじん）
While it's admittedly a cool name, I'd never use it. Taking a kanji name reeks of desperation to be Japanese to me. I equally dislike it when Chinese take on western names when they come to Canada and respect those who retain their Chinese names.

My last name would require 4 kanji for phonetic representation, some of which have no good options (te, gu). If I was legally required to take kanji I'd just change my surname. My first name, being very common, has standard recognized kanji (麻郁).