Two kanji involved in this question, Frame 1042 (yell) and Frame 2678 (summons).

AFAIK, a summons (noun) is 喚問 (かんもん), and to summon (verb) is 召喚 (しょうかん　する).

But Frame 2678 is given as 'summons', which must make it a noun. No problem, except my Casio Ex-Word (90,000 Japanese words) says it isn't even a kanji, or that no words are associated with this kanji (even though when I write it on the touch screen the kanji is properly selected, no less). It is a kanji, of course, and Breen's site uses it in at least three examples, but none of them convey the sense of a summons, which in American English is a demand by a superior to an inferior to present himself or herself (a command to come to a specific place, usually to compel testimony under oath) -- issued by a court, or a governing body like Congress. This usage, seems to be more consistent with Frame 1042.

I'm thinking of doing some keyword changing. Expertise and assistance greatly appreciated. Is anyone very familiar with either of these kanji?

Are you talking about "聘"?

That kanji doesn't represent a summons like you described (an inferior being demanded to make an appearance) but I see how it might occupy the more vague definition of 'summons' which refers to simply making an appearance due to the will of another. In that case I suppose it could fit the term, because 聘 is used for employment/invitation.

Think of it more as 'invite' rather than 'summons' but you can see the link.

Aijin Wrote:Are you talking about "聘"?

That kanji doesn't represent a summons like you described (an inferior being demanded to make an appearance) but I see how it might occupy the more vague definition of 'summons' which refers to simply making an appearance due to the will of another. In that case I suppose it could fit the term, because 聘 is used for employment/invitation.

Think of it more as 'invite' rather than 'summons' but you can see the link.

Yes, that's the little fellow. And, yes, I agree with your assessment based on what I've been able to dig up (invitation or some similar English concept is better than summons). My original plan was to replace 'yell' with 'summon' (or maybe just add it, but in front of yell), but of course with 'summons' as an existing keyword this seemed like it might be a bad move. However, I'm getting more comfortable with the idea, and I think 聘 needs a better keyword, too.

Heisig's method is so superb, but I don't understand his avoidance of compound or explanatory keywords in some cases, but use of compounds in others. For example, "homecoming" has strong educational institution connotations in American English that somewhat miss the Japanese (and it's also an extremely common kanji that one should have a very good sense of). A much better keyword, IMHO, is 'return', but that is also used with 返. I just changed them to 'return (to a place)' for the former and return (something)' for the latter. I'm sure I can keep the two distinct, even the resulting story mods were almost insignificant.

Thanks for your input.

Wally Wrote:Heisig's method is so superb, but I don't understand his avoidance of compound or explanatory keywords in some cases, but use of compounds in others. For example, "homecoming" has strong educational institution connotations in American English that somewhat miss the Japanese (and it's also an extremely common kanji that one should have a very good sense of). A much better keyword, IMHO, is 'return', but that is also used with 返. I just changed them to 'return (to a place)' for the former and return (something)' for the latter. I'm sure I can keep the two distinct, even the resulting story mods were almost insignificant.

While I definitely think "homecoming" might be a troublesome keyword, changing it to return (to a place) isn't very good either since that misses the important "home" part. Remember, if you're in Japan on a visit but going home and want to tell some Japanese friend that you'll return to Japan soon, you can't use 帰る since Japan still isn't your home. You have to use 戻る (which only complicates it even more).

Tobberoth Wrote:

Wally Wrote:Heisig's method is so superb, but I don't understand his avoidance of compound or explanatory keywords in some cases, but use of compounds in others. For example, "homecoming" has strong educational institution connotations in American English that somewhat miss the Japanese (and it's also an extremely common kanji that one should have a very good sense of). A much better keyword, IMHO, is 'return', but that is also used with 返. I just changed them to 'return (to a place)' for the former and return (something)' for the latter. I'm sure I can keep the two distinct, even the resulting story mods were almost insignificant.

While I definitely think "homecoming" might be a troublesome keyword, changing it to return (to a place) isn't very good either since that misses the important "home" part. Remember, if you're in Japan on a visit but going home and want to tell some Japanese friend that you'll return to Japan soon, you can't use 帰る since Japan still isn't your home. You have to use 戻る (which only complicates it even more).

I'm an 永住者 in Japan.

But yes, you are right of course, in the sense that kanji and one English keyword simply don't cut the mustard a lot of the time. Fortunately, with FF, Greasemonkey and woelpad (kudos, dude), there is the ability to nail down a kanji sense even if it takes a somewhat verbose number of words. I'll see how it goes this way, and modify as and if necessary. Again, Heisig is great. Superb. I just wish he had not chosen so many tertiary keywords. But I understand he did this in a huge hurry, and he tried to avoid duplication at all costs. In those aspects, he showed genius.

Three "returns" is a son of a gun for sure. For 戻る, my understanding, which comes from a native speaker but which I will now attempt to explain in English, is that "home" is usually *not* implied. It's a return to the place where you were which is not your home, but which *might* be home, but you'd probably use 帰る in such a case. Otherwise, it would be obvious, as in 家に戻ります, which is certainly a possible utterance. But the first choice, I'm informed by natives, would be 家に帰ります. Tough to nail down perfectly in English, or any other language, for sure, is tough. I just didn't want to deal with 'homecoming', which, as an American, I would just about *never* use for "going home" or "returning home". It may have had some similar sense in the 18th or 19th centuries (or earlier), but not today.

The basic meaning of 聘 is "visit," "invite," and "ask for," all of which stem from the right half of the character that means "bring a gift." You'll often see the character in words that involve gifts in Chinese and/or Japanese culture. For example, 招聘 (しょうへい, invitation) is one of the most frequent compounds containing the kanji, and 聘う (あとう, propose marriage) is an oft-knajified archaic word.

戻る and 帰る have a lot of meanings and usages, some of which are very similar. In fact, they're interchangeable in sentences like 彼はそれっきり家に戻らなかった。(He left home never to return.) and 昨日は家に帰りませんでした。(I didn't go home yesterday.) Explaining all the senses of the two words is impossible, so I'll give a short explanation about the 帰る vs. 戻る difference that might have confused the native speaker you asked. Actually, the difference in usage has nothing to do with 家 per se.

戻る is often used like the English phrasal verb "go back" as in "Shit! Gotta go back for my umbrella." The word is neutral when it comes to the place you go back to. The sense is that the return is sort of temporal and is not the main purpose. For example, you often use 戻る when you go back to the starting point on the way to your destination, e.g., 本を置き忘れたところまで来た道を戻った (I retraced my steps to the spot where I left the book). So if you left your J-E dic at your home, you can say 家に戻る because you go back home for your dictionary.

帰る can be used when you return to a place other than your house, but the word implies the place is sort of important to you, especially your "home" in the sense that it's the "base" you usually return to. That's why 家 is often used with 帰る. It's just 帰る is related to the place you return to while 戻る is more restricted in usage when it comes to the purpose of the return.

Some examples may help understand the difference:

Most of the time, 家に帰る is more like "go home" while 家に戻る often means "go back home."

You can use either 帰る or 戻る when you left something at home, so 家に携帯電話を取りに帰る (go back home for my cell phone) and 家に携帯電話を取りに戻る are ok. But when you left it, say, in a friend's room, you probably use 戻る unless he or she is your roommate. If you say 取りに帰る when you left it in your girlfriend's room, people might think you have shacked up or go to her room like everyday.

あなたのもとに帰りたい and あなたのもとに戻りたい mean "I want to get back together," i.e., your ex misses you. But the former implies you are the person he or she has to return to while the latter is neutral and less emotional.

Of course these are not the only difference, and you'll come across sentences that can't be explained by the explanation in this post. But I think this is what your friend was trying to say.