Hi everyone. I'm currently preparing to teach a kanji course using the Heisig method. I have used RTK since 1994 for personal use and recently for teaching private students. I absolutely love this book. I've never used it though for teaching more than 2 people at a time. Now I'm about to use this for a class of at least 10.

Have any of you used this method in a formal class? What were your experiences with it in a classroom setting? What did your teachers do that made it successful for you? What didn't work in the class?

Thanks for your help everyone

Tracie

I thought Heisig was all about self-study?.. It'll take anyone 30 minutes to explain the methodology and then it's all up to the students... desyou?!

traciewhiting Wrote:Hi everyone. I'm currently preparing to teach a kanji course using the Heisig method.

Kudos Tracie! There was a recent posting on this this, with a link to a guy who taught it a little. Maybe you can reach him?
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=329

I hope you will let us know what sort of lessons you'll use - I'm very curious. I thought about setting weekly goals, having weekly quizes, lots of games and story sharing in class. Of course, the homework will be tough. I also wonder if you will recommend paper or electronic flashcards to your students?
Good luck!

I think Serge suggests the right approach here. Maybe augment it by quizzes once in a while.

There are many parts to learning kanji that are not covered by Heisig, especially compounds and pronunciation (unless you use vol. 2, which I'm not sure I'd recommend for the course). You'll need to cover that at some point. I know Heisig warns against doing that concurrently, but YMMV.

Even for the Heisig keyword and writing study, I'm not convinced it has to be completely solitary. After all, this website is a place to work on Heisig together, sharing stories, etc.

Thank you everyone. This will be a 60 minute adult course held once a week for only 2 months. A few of the students have had formal study of the language but most have not. These students are not in Japan nor do they have regular exposure to Japanese. But they do have spirit and are excited about the class. I'm aware that Heisig is a self-study method, so this is more of an instructor-directed self-study course.

I'm only anticipating getting through chapter 7 or so, but it would be nice to do more. In addition to weekly quizzes, I'll bring in authentic Japanese materials (newspapers, ads, etc) kingkanji, and a workbook I wrote a few years ago for another class.

What I'm most interested in knowing is what other things did you use to help you practice. Perhaps this is directed to those who studied outside of Japan.

In addition to flashcards (electronic & handmade), what websites, games, and such did you find helpful?

Thanks again for your input.

Tracie

traciewhiting Wrote:In addition to flashcards (electronic & handmade), what websites, games, and such did you find helpful?

I find what helps me most during RTK study is reading proper written Japanese and being able to get a (fairly close) guess at the meaning of kanji compound words. Those kinds of things that show your work is paying off really keep me motivated, and lack of motivation is what kills most people when going through RTK1.

""In addition to flashcards (electronic & handmade), what websites, games, and such did you find helpful?""

it has to be this website. period.

Something I found entertaining before I knew any readings is turning place names in Japan (cities, prefectures) in to english Heisig speak. So 高山　（Takayama) becomes Ｔａｌｌ Mountain, 東京　(Tokyo) becomes East Capital and my city 大垣　(Ogaki) becomes Large Hedge. There are a number of relatively famous places that can be done early on in the book and its a bit of a thrill to be able to recognize 'Tokyo' written in Japanese. It might be a fun class activity - especially if any students are planning to travel in Japan later. Being able to recognize the kanji names for the places you are trying to get to is a huge boon when you are using the transit system here - especially when you venture off the main JR lines and romanji becomes less frequent.

traciewhiting Wrote:Thank you everyone. This will be a 60 minute adult course held once a week for only 2 months. A few of the students have had formal study of the language but most have not. These students are not in Japan nor do they have regular exposure to Japanese. But they do have spirit and are excited about the class. I'm aware that Heisig is a self-study method, so this is more of an instructor-directed self-study course.

I'm only anticipating getting through chapter 7 or so, but it would be nice to do more. In addition to weekly quizzes, I'll bring in authentic Japanese materials (newspapers, ads, etc) kingkanji, and a workbook I wrote a few years ago for another class.

Why KK? It used to be my program of choice for some time, but it seems that now it is no longer really competitive on any of its' platforms.
I'd definitely suggest adding comics to the mix -- I think they are one of the best things to read for a beginner, and there are so many of them.
Adding compounds might be a good idea if you can, for example, write sample texts with compounds that utilize characters already learned. I've made a spreadsheet of some such compounds once, I can make it available I guess.
It might also be good if you can provide the students with information on the kanji readings and popular compounds and the context of their usage, at least for the more common kanji. Heisig de-emphasizes that point and they should probably not drill that but there is no reason not to use such things as an input to their stories imo...
one exercise I just thought about could be giving the students a piece of text and asking them to identify known kanji and take a guess at the meaning of the words.
not sure how far into the book lesson 7 is; i think you'd probably want to do it as fast as your students can learn, and most ppl can learn pretty fast early in the book since there is not that much to review.

traciewhiting Wrote:I'm only anticipating getting through chapter 7 or so, but it would be nice to do more. In addition to weekly quizzes, I'll bring in authentic Japanese materials (newspapers, ads, etc) kingkanji, and a workbook I wrote a few years ago for another class.

Only to chapter 7? That feels like a low goal for two months studies. That is only 2 kanji/day (126 kanji in total). It should not be a problem for anyone to move faster than that in part 1.

It's 20-30 lessons for 2 months.

there was a discussion of the best rates in another thread recently. as i said there, I generally felt like I was wasting my time if I learned less than 20..25 kanji at once -- meaning that much per week would be the bare minimum comfortable for me in such a class, assuming I would work only once a week on my homework. But you probably want to go faster than that.

fragileshards Wrote:Something I found entertaining before I knew any readings is turning place names in Japan (cities, prefectures) in to english Heisig speak.

That is a fun idea. Thank you.

laxxy Wrote:Why KK? It used to be my program of choice for some time, but it seems that now it is no longer really competitive on any of its' platforms.

I used King Kanji a few years ago and i know that some of my students are addicted to their pdas. Do you have another one that you like better?

I have the worksheets for the compounds made already from my private classes that I've taught before. And I've also used Japanese high school textbooks for letting the students figure out what they know. But I used that with students who had been studying the spoken language also. Manga may be good to look at. And there are some free publications at the local Asian food store I can get for them as well.

If you're willing to share your spreadsheet I'd love to at least look at it.

Pauline Wrote:Only to chapter 7? That feels like a low goal for two months studies. That is only 2 kanji/day (126 kanji in total). It should not be a problem for anyone to move faster than that in part 1.

Personally I'd like to move much faster.

The age range of this class is 18 - 65. Most of my students are over 40 and busy professionals. As this is a community course, I'm not certain what the ambition level of my students will be. I know they have an interest in Japan and the language, but what I don't know yet is how much are they willing to dedicate their time to it.

I've taught the spoken language in this venue for 3 years so I know how much I can push my students and which ones will not return after the first week. But teaching Kanji for this organization is a new experiment for me. Until now, most of my Kanji lessons have been with private students. A long time ago I taught a university class using Elenor Jordan's written language text. This commnity ed program is a different sort of creature.

So, yes it is a low goal, but that doesn't mean I won't be able to go faster if the students are so inclined. Since this is the first time this class is offered, I'm sort of feeling everything out. If my goals were too high I know I'd lose most of them. The first two weeks of these community classes usually weed out those who had a passing interest but don't want to do any of the work.

I'll let you know how fast we actually are able to go by the end of this.

traciewhiting Wrote:

laxxy Wrote:Why KK? It used to be my program of choice for some time, but it seems that now it is no longer really competitive on any of its' platforms.

I used King Kanji a few years ago and i know that some of my students are addicted to their pdas. Do you have another one that you like better?

For Palm -- Twinkle (free) and *far* better. I use it all the time on my Samsung i500 cell phone, but any Palm device (including Treo) would do. They have a ready-made file with Heisig cards on their website, and converting any spreadsheet into a flashcard file (and back) is a snap with included software. (btw, another must have for Palm is PADict, a nice free dictionary).
For PPC -- perhaps Stackz (commercial, it's also available for PC and Mac; Palm too but Twinkle is better there). I am sure it has Heisig cards too -- they have *a lot* of cards. I would personally first explore an option of running Twinkle under an emulator if I had to use a PPC, but it would be too much of a complication to recommend that to students.
On PC/Mac there is a free program called Mnemosyne that many ppl seem to like, and quite a few other options of all kinds, both free and commercial (Stackz is probably notable here too).
There is also something called Paulker for Java supporting devices, like certain cellphones, but I suspect it would be too much trouble to get it to support Japanese on an American cell phone -- although if someone does that it would be useful to know.

Quote:I have the worksheets for the compounds made already from my private classes that I've taught before. And I've also used Japanese high school textbooks for letting the students figure out what they know. But I used that with students who had been studying the spoken language also. Manga may be good to look at. And there are some free publications at the local Asian food store I can get for them as well.

If you're willing to share your spreadsheet I'd love to at least look at it.

OK, I'll send you a PM when I find it. Its' a bit messy, but you should be also able to use it to order your worksheet of compounds in appropriate order if you would want that.

traciewhiting Wrote:I've taught the spoken language in this venue for 3 years so I know how much I can push my students and which ones will not return after the first week. But teaching Kanji for this organization is a new experiment for me. Until now, most of my Kanji lessons have been with private students. A long time ago I taught a university class using Elenor Jordan's written language text. This commnity ed program is a different sort of creature.

Problem I see here is that goal with such timetable actually becomes far too away to be perceptible. If it's 126 kanji for 2 months and after part 2 progress will be slower (say, 1.5 times), RtK1 completion is 3.7 years away. Given that Heisig's kanji are not arranged by frequency and so study will be useful only after full completion, I don't see any reason beside short-sightedness why someone would attend to such course.

This is a community education program. Most classes are only one day or a few weeks long. It is mainly for general introduction to a subject and not intended for long term in this venue. Some participants are interested because they lived in Japan at one time, they are about to take a business trip to Japan, anime fans, or are simply wondering if this is something that they want to explore further in a more formal setting. The cost of these courses is quite low and I teach through this program as a volunteer. After these short courses, some will seek ways to further their studies or interests... or move on to something else.

As I mentioned earlier, I have taught Heisig to private students who are pushed and challenged. I've not taught the method in a large group setting so this will be interesting to see the difference. I'm not expecting all of these students to finish the class with a desire to learn more Kanji... some will, some won't. That is just the nature of it. Different venues attract different types of students and expectations. Would I use this method to teach a college course? Not on its own. Do I use this for my clients who want to read? all the time. This community ed course is short term, and designed only to spark the interest of the participants, not get them to RTK2 by summer.

I appreciate your concern. If the students are able, I will push them as hard as I can to go faster.

My point is that for any serious effort speed must be several times as much. So those who will pursue the goal must eventually move to that speed and there's no point in setting the goal impractically low even during introduction course for them. And it's 2-months course, not 1-hour. This speed in infeasible for those who will actually learn, and 2 months is too long for those who won't. Empty target audience.

Having taught other subjects at Community Ed in the past, I know what you are up against. However, I have to agree with RoboTact and others on this thread.

IMO, you will be doing all of your students a great disservice by having a schedule that is lower than 70% of what you would cover in a class with traditional students. A slow pace for even the first week unnecessarily holds the entire group back by wasting that first precious week.

If you look around at the threads on this website you will see that most people tend to rip through Parts 1 and 2 of the book at a very fast pace. Review demand is still low and enthusiasm for this learning method are very high at this stage. I think that going at too slow a pace will throw a damper on student's natural initial enthusiasm with the method.

The first 508 kanji come with stories or plots in Heisig and can be done very quickly. Asking your students to learn 20 a day during the first month should not be taxing even for busy professionals. You will be able to cover 560 kanji in the first month. (Especially if you provide them with additional stories or plots for kanji in Part 3 of RTK (kanji #509-560).

The second month, the pace could be adjusted to fit the needs of those who remain. It also depends on how much in the way of plot and/or story hints you plan to provide. But I think you can still aim for at least 800-1000 kanji as your final goal for a two-month class. (This would mean that students would lower their pace to learning 10-15 kanji a day the second month.)

I think that the above schedule is realistic for a Community Ed class and that more students will feel like continuing on with the method after the class ends if they have accomplished this as opposed to a mere 126 kanji. Another 1900+ kanji will just feel too daunting.