What are your opinions on classes in countries other than Japan taught in Japanese (upper division courses)? For example:
San Francisco State University (said to be 3rd best Japanese program in the US)
http://www.sfsu.edu/~bulletin/current/pr...htm#473109

Anyone have any experience taking classes such as these?

Also,
Can JLPT 1 replace the value of getting bachelors or master's degree of arts in Japanese? Somehow that doesn't seem realistic.

Edit: In other words, what are the differences in employment possiblities if you went through this whole bachelor/master degree process V.S. employment possiblities via taking JLPT1? Can JLPT1 actually get you very far in the US?

I don't understand what value a Japanese degree has at all, in fact I don't understand why someone would major only in a language.

If person A gets a bachelor's and master's in Japanese and person B self-studies to JLPT 1 and both of them can read and speak fluent Japanese, what's the difference? What does person A have that person B doesn't?

If Japanese is a requirement for a job- I'm with khatz on this one- setting up and conducting an interview purely in Japanese is going to get you farther than any degree or cert. That's where languages differ from things like technical degrees- you can't bullshit with language- you can either speak it, or you can't. (for example- I have a degree in engineering but I remember very little about what I did in college).

Well, a degree for Japanese with more than the language can have value. There's a difference in understanding a language and knowing history, culture, socio-political structure, relation with other nations, etc.

Look at Jarvik, he has a detailed knowledge of the Japanese language that goes beyond knowing how to read, write and speak. Guess the easiest analogy is just because you can drive a car does not make you a mechanic. Then again, the best mechanic ain't gonna drive in the Indianapolis 500 either, but he'll probably assist the best driver (take from that what you will).

captal Wrote:I don't understand what value a Japanese degree has at all, in fact I don't understand why someone would major only in a language.

If person A gets a bachelor's and master's in Japanese and person B self-studies to JLPT 1 and both of them can read and speak fluent Japanese, what's the difference? What does person A have that person B doesn't?

Honestly the same can be said for just about any degree.

Spend 4 years actually working in a professional business environment, aka "self studying" business, vs 4 years getting a business degree and the person with the business degree has even less to show for it in terms of practical knowledge. Most college degrees, in terms of actual information learned, are an epic waste of time and money compared to what you could actually accomplish with self study in the same 4-5 year time period. Their usefulness comes mainly from the fact that many higher level jobs simply require that shiny piece of paper.

And for the record I'm a business major but I've already been in the "real" work world (going on 6 years with the FBI as a Technical Specialist) long enough to know that my college education was/is a joke, in terms of the actual "education" part.

All that being said in "on paper" terms I agree with you that getting a degree just in Japanese would be a waste. Not because it is actually a waste, hell getting JLPT1 is far more impressive a feat than simply getting an average degree, but the fact is most employers could care less about it. If you are going to college and already studying Japanese in your spare time it is simply a smarter move to add variety to your future resume.

Japanese degree + fluent in Japanese will not look as good on paper as Business Degree (or whatever degree you pick) + fluent in Japanese.

My degree also taught me translation theory, history, art, linguistics, literature, music, classical language, religion, composition skills, reasoning skills, politics, etc. At most universities only one course per semester is a pure language course, and you have to take 4 other courses (minimum) per semester as well to complete your degree. It's the same as every other humanities degree - one is expected to gain knowledge in a wide variety of fields. Many people with language degrees also get a masters and/or end up teaching in their related field (I, for example, am qualified enough to teach while I worked on a masters if I so wished).

The point of most degrees is not just to teach you to speak Japanese, or how to conduct business, or whatever the major is. It is to teach you all the other things you learn in university. I don't mean to sound snobby but I do think there is a big gap in reasoning ability between those who have completed a degree (in anything) and those who go directly to work from high-school. Even with science degrees (I was a science major for 3 years) you learn almost nothing in undergrad that is applicable to a career. You get the real smarts when doing graduate work.

Khatz, however, is wrong. Having a cert or a degree gets your resume consideration in the first place and thus increases your chances. Look at most foreigner向け job ads. Most state the required JLPT level and not the ability level. For 日本人向け ads, they generally state the required TOEIC level, and not just "fluent English". There is no way for an HR person to tell how good you are at a language from a resume. It is very normal to have them professionally translated afterall. Most people are also notoriously bad at judging their own competency so you can't take their word that they are "fluent in X".

IT jobs in Japan that are open to foreigners generally don't require a high level of Japanese ability anyways (most I've found only want JLPT3). Khatz's computer science degree (or related major) is what got him the job, not his super-amazing Japanese ability.

Of course having a JLPT cert doesn't mean you have more ability than someone without one, but it does guarantee a certain minimum level of knowledge. Japan is also in love with certifications so you'd better get used to the idea of them. If you plan on using Japanese professionally, get JLPT, period. Ideally get JBiz too. The more certs you have the more you stand out.

You can't impress in an interview if you never get the interview in the first place.

And now, a bit more on-topic. Most universities have awful Japanese programs. In fact, most universities don't even have a proper Japanese program, but only offer an "Asian Studies" degree or a Japanese minor. If you do plan on going after a Japanese major, pay close attention to the exchange programs at prospective universities. You'll learn way more language-wise in a year doing exchange studies than you will in the remaining 3 years at your home institution. (I never took Japanese at the university I graduated from with a degree in Japanese, having done 3.5 years worth of material in 2 semesters in Japan)

In general a 4yr degree at a decent western university will get someone to JLPT2 level assuming they only do the required coursework and little else. The student will know way more ABOUT Japan than someone with just JLPT1 though. Culture is the foundation of language so in the long-run I think the one with the degree under their belt will end up better than someone who only holds JLPT1 if they keep at their studies. Students of course are not limited to only doing assigned homework - I was JLPT2 level when I was at what I would call the 2nd year of my major, thanks to supplemental self study.

Jarvik7 Wrote:And now, a bit more on-topic. Most universities have awful Japanese programs. In fact, most universities don't even have a proper Japanese program, but only offer an "Asian Studies" degree or a Japanese minor.only doing assigned homework - I was JLPT2 level when I was at what I would call the 2nd year of my major, thanks to supplemental self study.

Hey, you nailed Temple University. :/

I have a few questions for you, if you don't mind (sorry to derail the thread...)

I always wondered where you received your impressive linguistic education. Was it during graduate school? You mention getting a lot of your education during an exchange in Japan. Did you go to a 100% Japanese university? I'm heading to Temple U. Japan next semester, which has almost all of its classes conducted completely in English (which is good, because I'm not very good at Japanese yet.) How did you manage to cram 3.5 years of study into 2 semesters? What schools/programs did you go, and what was your plan for after school (were you doing all this to become a teacher, translator, etc?)

I only ask because my graduation is coming up in a few semesters (I'm an Asian Studies major) and I have no idea what I'm going to do after school. All I know is I will have nothing resembling the type of in depth knowledge of Japan, its language, culture, etc. that you have.

Thank you everyone for your opinions and knowledge (especially Jarvik).

As others stated, whether or not the degree is of importance is going to depend mostly upon the career itself. A language degree may seem completely useless to most people, but if you plan on teaching in the academia for that language, then the degree is of great importance. A B.A. in Japanese may only get you to JLPT2 level, but for admission into a Ph.D. program for Japanese Literature it is of great importance. It's possible to be admitted into a great graduate program without the undergrad studies, but it's more difficult, and competition for the top Japanese grad programs is pretty high as is.

If you just want language skills, of course JLPT1 can be equivalent to the degree. But, most undergrad programs do involve a lot of extra aspects: in-depth study of the culture, translation workshops, classical studies, literature, history, etc.

A lot of things I had never thought about, thanks for the insight Jarvik and Aijin.

Jarvik- where are these IT jobs that require only JLPT3? I'd love to know, because I've been looking. My background is in IT and I have JLPT3

I have spoken to several IT* recruiters (in Tokyo), and they've all pretty much told me that they usually aim for L2, and L1 is even more desirable. Sure, some people have managed to get work with only L3, but think about it, especially in these times, if an employer gets 10 resumes for an open position, one of them has L1 and the rest L2 or L3, who do you think they will interview first?

(*aside: as an engineer who has gone to grad school, it really irks me how in Japan the entire tech industry as a whole is referred to as "IT". Like people who write driver or antivirus code are the same as the trained monkeys who pop in a new hard drive when the mail server goes down. Ugh.)