bombpersons, You do realize this forum is indexed on google? And that it's the 2nd hit for "kanji odyssey 2001"? CosCom is paying attention.

bombpersons Wrote:The amount of money lost to them is negligible as most people who downloaded deck, like me, weren't interested in buying anyway. I only downloaded it because it was there and it looked useful.

Still trying to get my head around this reasoning... =]

Wally Wrote:I'm always amazed at how many people think the best use of their time is attacking others, rather than just quietly improving their own morality.

oh, Wally, such irony

Didn't we agree to move this discussion to a piracy-friendly forum on Yahoo or something? I know this thread is still open, but no need to beat a dead horse. It might reanimate and bite someone's naughty bits.

As long as the OP exists with links to the anki deck it matters and the horse ain't dead. If you want to move the discussion to a piracy-friendly forum, then move the links too.

And I'm sorry to have not jumped i earlier, but this is the first I've had access to internet since this started.

EDIT: I've said my piece and I'll bow out. Perhaps permanently. I love this forum but I cannot support (even passively) what's happening right here.

[ファブリス]

nest0r Wrote:Didn't we agree to move this discussion to a piracy-friendly forum on Yahoo or something? I know this thread is still open, but no need to beat a dead horse. It might reanimate and bite someone's naughty bits.

Yes, so now please move the first post and links over there. This very thread will be deleted or moderated in a week or so.

There are many young, very intelligent people who contribute to this forum. Some of which will become authors as well one day I am certain (At your Borders signing party, please write in my book, "To my dear friend Bodhisamaya...").
This whole argument over copyright is such a mess. It also serves to discriminate what is worth stealing and what is not. So far, we have determined that Kanji Odyssey, RTK, All About Particles, and Kanji in Context are all worth stealing. What does that mean? It means increased sales for the publishers of those books and a slide into oblivion for books not worth the effort of retyping for shared use. If I want all the little nuances available from the authors, I can either put in an extra hour at the office and buy the book, or spend MORE money and numerous invested hours to print it out, or copy all those pages at Kinko's and then bind them myself.
All aspiring authors of the future, would you want a thread on kanji.koohii devoted to the sharing of your ideas? Would you start the thread yourself under a pseudo-name to get everyone interested in it? Has the information from RTK shared on this website increased or decreased interest and sales of Heisig's book?

Its about what extra you get. These things online should act as a supplement, not a replacement. Heisig's book is needed to go through the primitives and stuff, so the book is still required. I bought the KO2001 because I needed the spreadsheet for Anki. If back then the anki deck and audio were available, I probably wouldn't have bought KO2001.

Thora Wrote:oh, Wally, such irony

Thora, your grasp of it isn't as thorough as you apparently imagine.

mafried Wrote:Frankly, this thread sickens me. I am now seriously reconsidering whether I want to be involved in this community.

If this "sickens" you then please let me know where you live in the world because it must be a damn nice place lol.

Quote:ahibba, xaarg, this isn't about the morality of copyright law,

Yet your entire argument is the exact same rehashed copyright argument. You're just pretending to claim otherwise in a overly dramatic fashion lol.

Quote:For the people on this forum there is nothing to be gained from owning the books.

So why am I using the book? Oh yeah that's right, this deck doesn't tell me which compound goes with which meaning nor where compounds begin or end within strings of Kanji. The book provides that which allows me to highlight such points to make sure I'm getting the information completely correct. So sorry, you're wrong.

Wally Wrote:Thora, your grasp of it isn't as thorough as you apparently imagine.

You could say that's my life motto. I try to remind myself of it frequently. Humility's a good thing. =]

activeaero Wrote:

Quote:For the people on this forum there is nothing to be gained from owning the books.

So why am I using the book? Oh yeah that's right, this deck doesn't tell me which compound goes with which meaning nor where compounds begin or end within strings of Kanji. The book provides that which allows me to highlight such points to make sure I'm getting the information completely correct. So sorry, you're wrong.

But even something as simple as Edict does that for free. Who would buy a book for those two things?

Tobberoth Wrote:

activeaero Wrote:

Quote:For the people on this forum there is nothing to be gained from owning the books.

So why am I using the book? Oh yeah that's right, this deck doesn't tell me which compound goes with which meaning nor where compounds begin or end within strings of Kanji. The book provides that which allows me to highlight such points to make sure I'm getting the information completely correct. So sorry, you're wrong.

But even something as simple as Edict does that for free. Who would buy a book for those two things?

Why buy RTK1 when this site exists? Because it's easier to just look at the book then to go searching around the internet every time a new primitive pops up that you aren't sure about.

1. The deck does NOT contain everything in the book.

2. I am thankful to all of you who brought it back to life, but this thread should be CLOSED!

If you want you can post the links at the RTK-Share google group if you like. Just request an invite (at the group page) or e-mail one of the members and ask for an invite.

Linky
http://groups.google.com/group/rtk-share

bodhisamaya Wrote:It also serves to discriminate what is worth stealing and what is not. So far, we have determined that Kanji Odyssey, RTK, All About Particles, and Kanji in Context are all worth stealing.

This is not a black or white issue. There are steps you should take morally to make sure that you're not harming someone by using their copyright without their permission. When this thread started, people were having to email a picture of their book cover to get access to the spreadsheet with the sentences. That makes sense to me. That makes it a community for people who bought the book. That is the responsible way to handle it. It could be argued that that system falls under fair use.

The irresponsible way to handle it is to post links to Anki decks that include all of the important content from the book on a public forum indexed by Google. That's a good way to get a cease and desist or, at worst, a lawsuit from CosCom. However, if there were one, it wouldn't go to the person that posted it. Fabrice would be the one to get the legal trouble. People should think about that before they post without concern for copyrights on public forums.

The KIC thread and the 例文で学ぶ thread both require pictures of the book cover, and so I doubt there's anyone stealing the books using the group study efforts. The RTK point is moot because Fabrice was responsible enough to ask for, and get, permission from Heisig. Heisig doesn't think this site is for pirating RTK, and that's good enough for me.

You want to make this a black and white issue instead of just thinking about how a responsible adult might handle it. There's a gray area where you do your best not to harm other people instead of just throwing your hands up by posting direct links to all the most important content from the book.

It's also been well-demonstrated online that piracy brings the quality of communities down. It starts attracting the exact wrong kind of people. This forum is for RTK and learning Japanese. It's not for helping people not pay for material that should be paid for.

Please close this thread.

What was started as an attempt to benefit the community has turned into an intellectual property rights conflict with most parties stating their views and attacking each other over that which they clearly do not have competence in.

Thank you to those that want to help the community.
Thank you to those that support ip rights.
Thank you to all for stopping this thead and getting back to the learning.

-D