[ファブリス]

Hya ahibba, nothing wrong with quoting as you asked me, but I will quote my full reply as it is more descriptive about the forum direction:

Fabrice Wrote:You should not create topics which purpose is to offer downloads. The reason for that is that it takes the forum in the wrong direction. I may delete such topics in the future without notice, unless those are downloads of completely free of rights material, in which case it would be best if you can mention it somewhere.

I am not against users sharing decks based partly or entirely on copyrighted material, when a user is answering to someone else in need of a deck or something.

That's a subtle but important difference.
I am willing to ignore when users post such links when they are helping each other out. There is a difference, the latter is more "occasional", and does not confuse users as to what the forum is all about.

Also consider that a deck in itself is user-made. Posting links to direct downloads of unedited cpyrighted material (videos, music, ebooks, ...) will be deleted if I get any notice from other users or copyright holders.

EDIT: updated forum guidelines topic based on this (please note "guidelines", I don't think we need a 43 pages book of rules ^_-).

ahibba Wrote:By the way, did you lose a lot of money on CosCom products? If so, please don't get upset if some generous people allowed us to use their copies that they bought with their money.

Lame.

Quote:I did not post any torrents here nor did xaarg. We upload our homemade decks.

So instead of pointing to copyright infringing material, you are pointing to copyright infringing material which you are personally responsible for creating. (?) Homemade decks are not exempt. Study materials are not exempt. The purpose, extent and form of duplication and distribution are factors. And, fwiw, I hold a somewhat different opinion than xaarg on what constitutes admin 'knowledge' and what suffices as thread sanitization. You may not care about copyright law, Ahibba, but I'm pleased that you will now take into account site guidelines and culture. I think Fabrice's approach is a sensible compromise.

xaarg Wrote:I wonder it it is easy to add an Anki deck to the CD that can be easily copied to the hard drive (including the audio) without changing the current layout of the CD. It seems there is not enough space left to store the audio twice.

yeah, it's easy -- a cd filesystem can have multiple filenames pointing to the same data

Thora Wrote:So instead of pointing to copyright infringing material, you are pointing to copyright infringing material which you are personally responsible for creating. [...]Study materials are not exempt.

Well, study materials that needed serious effort to create (meaning most owners of the ebook can't do it themselves) will increase the chance that there are laws in your country that might make this a legal copyright infrigment.

I guess it might be a good idea to add the orginal copyright notice and a bit of advertisment, like a link to publisher's page http://www.coscom.co.jp/ebook/e-2001kanji.html and bits of their promo text to the first post in this thread. There are really many people that will buy copyrigthed material they like if they are given the chance to do so.

cangy Wrote:yeah, it's easy -- a cd filesystem can have multiple filenames pointing to the same data

That's true. Now we just need somebody that asks them to include it.

ファブリス Wrote:The thing that bothers me more than the links actually, is that one shares content that was not asked for in the first place.

You surely are not trying to say that nobody requested a deck for KO2001. A legal owner of the new ebook even went to the trouble to send me all the audio so I could add it to the deck. The need for such a deck was well-known even before this thread was started.

ファブリス Wrote:You're not going to earn "XP", "gold" or any other credit for doing so here obviously. Just something to consider.

Actually I already earned 2 €, because somebody that downloaded the deck created a paid-for rapidshare account.

email question Wrote:I've downloaded the 3 archives of the KO2001 deck but when I extracted it, all there was was a folder called ko2001.media, how do I add this to my deck?

There is also a "ko2001.anki" file in that archive. The audio files are already included as relative links in that one. Just make sure the Anki deck stays in the same folder as "ko2001.media" folder.

If you want to add/import the deck to another deck of yours, then just copy the content of ko2001.media into the media folder of you other deck and then import "ko2001.anki" normally using Anki's import function.

xaarg Wrote:Well, study materials that needed serious effort to create (meaning most owners of the ebook can't do it themselves) will increase the chance that there are laws in your country that might make this a legal copyright infrigment.

Hence the sentence that followed in my post: "The purpose, extent and form of duplication and distribution are factors." :-) But in this case, I don't think running a script to convert exact content to spreadsheet format would save it.

Quote:I guess it might be a good idea to add the orginal copyright notice and a bit of advertisment, like a link to publisher's page http://www.coscom.co.jp/ebook/e-2001kanji.html and bits of their promo text to the first post in this thread. There are really many people that will buy copyrigthed material they like if they are given the chance to do so.

heh, I like the way you're thinking. Confirms my faith in "humanity". ;-) Perhaps include a notice in the file as well - there's a chance it might travel beyond RevTK.

And in keeping with Ahibba's desire to promote civil disobedience in the copyright arena, he might want to include his name and contact info as well. On principle. There's no risk right?

xaarg Wrote:I guess it might be a good idea to add the orginal copyright notice and a bit of advertisment, like a link to publisher's page http://www.coscom.co.jp/ebook/e-2001kanji.html and bits of their promo text to the first post in this thread. There are really many people that will buy copyrigthed material they like if they are given the chance to do so.

I added some lines to the first post

xaarg Wrote:There is also a "ko2001.anki" file in that archive. The audio files are already included as relative links in that one. Just make sure the Anki deck stays in the same folder as "ko2001.media" folder.

The only problem I found in your deck is the encrypted filenames of the images and the audio (I don't know what they call it.)

But since you uploaded the scripts, I think we can fix it. (by remaking the deck without checksum.)

Thora Wrote:Perhaps include a notice in the file as well - there's a chance it might travel beyond RevTK.

And in keeping with Ahibba's desire to promote civil disobedience in the copyright arena, he might want to include his name and contact info as well.

Good idea.

ahibba Wrote:I added some lines to the first post

You should also change the subject of this thread. How about "2001.Kanji.Odyssey Anki deck with audio for all example sentences" or something along those lines.

Then update the picture to one that shows the current deck.

Then remove the old text like "This compressed file contains an Anki deck with 1551 cards and an Excel spreadsheet." and add a proper description what the archive contains now.

Also I think the red text is rather annoying. Why not use something like:

Quote:CosCom is the publisher of high quality learning material for Japanese. Their flagship product 2001.Kanji.Odyssey is suitable for those who are new to learning kanji or for those who have already learned the basic kanji characters.

It contains:
* Important readings
* Over 3,500 important vocabulary words with audio
* Over 3,000 example sentences with audio
* All examples are accompanied by English translation and ruby
* Stroke order for over 2000 kanji

The 1,110 kanji you will learn in the first two levels of this ebook will cover over 90% of kanji that appear in general documents overall. Learning those 1,110 characters with priority is the most efficient way of Kanji learning.

There may be more than one reading for single kanji, but not all readings are frequently used. With most kanji, only one or two readings per kanji are frequently used. So they separated readings of each kanji into important and unimportant ones.





Find out more at http://www.coscom.co.jp/ebook/e-2001kanji.html, browse a free sample at http://www.coscom.co.jp/ebook/2001kanji/...index.html or order at http://www.coscom.co.jp/order/index.html.

To supplement your studies with the ebook we created a free deck for the Anki (a program that helps you remember) available at http://ichi2.net/anki/ that will boost your progress in reading and understanding Japanese.




It contains all 3104 example sentences of the book with readings and audio. All together there are 6208 cards ("Listening" and "Recognition"). Unforunatly the Japanese text is stored as gif images, so you can not easily edit it or search it.

Get the Anki deck now.

You need WinRAR (http://www.rarlab.com/) or a compatible program to extract the deck. It is distributed as three rar files (ko2001.part1.rar, ko2001.part2.rar and ko2001.part3.rar). Make sure they are all in the same folder and then open ko2001.part1.rar. Then extract ko2001.anki (the deck itself) and ko2001.media (the folder containing all mp3 and gif files).

Maybe we can also find better webspace than rapidshare to store the files, so people don't need to download three seperate files.

ahibba Wrote:The only problem I found in your deck is the encrypted filenames of the images and the audio (I don't know what they call it.)

Yeah, thats true. Removing all calls to deck.addMedia and using the filename directly should fix this. Then you could upload a deck without audio and people would just need to copy the mp3 files with their orginal names into the "ko2001.media" folder to make it work. Makes it "more legal" and also makes the download smaller.

ahibba Wrote:

Thora Wrote:Perhaps include a notice in the file as well - there's a chance it might travel beyond RevTK. [...] contact info as well.

Good idea.

Is there a easy way to add such info to an Anki deck? Maybe we should include a text file in the archive?

ahibba Wrote:But I'm going to convert all images into searchable text and I'll remake the deck. Please wait.

Seems silly. Why don't just lend the book from your local library, create a new account on this forum named "lawful citizien" and request access to the spreadsheet with a picture of the book as proof.

On the other hand, I really like the pictures. I don't know how text could improve on them. I usually don't edit or search inside my Anki decks. Compared to the audio their size is really negligible.

I just found a list of 1000 kanji used in the book with their matching numbers on their website:
http://www.coscom.co.jp/japanesekanji/fr...evel2.html.

Unfortunatly it does not cover all of the kanji used in the example sentences.

I just realized that their free sample contains all kanji as text with their numbers.
http://www.coscom.co.jp/ebook/2001kanji/...1-oya.html
http://www.coscom.co.jp/ebook/2001kanji/...1-oya.html
http://www.coscom.co.jp/ebook/2001kanji/...1-oya.html

Quote:You should also change the subject of this thread. How about "2001.Kanji.Odyssey Anki deck with audio for all example sentences" or something along those lines.

If I could, I would change it. But you can edit the post only not the title.

xaarg Wrote:Then update the picture to one that shows the current deck.

Then remove the old text like "This compressed file contains an Anki deck with 1551 cards and an Excel spreadsheet." and add a proper description what the archive contains now.

I was going to remove it, but because I can't edit the title, I keep it.

xaarg Wrote:Also I think the red text is rather annoying. Why not use something like:

I wish I can use your text, but unfortunately the title does not indicate the complete deck or what your text is talking about.

xaarg Wrote:Seems silly. Why don't just lend the book from your local library, create a new account on this forum named "lawful citizien" and request access to the spreadsheet with a picture of the book as proof.

Why did make it like your quoting me?

Is there any reference to the RtK member ahibba in that website?

Don't you read "This website has no relation in any way with RtK forum, and the material published there does not necessarily reflect our opinions!"?

However, your idea makes perfect sense indeed, but I think the owner of that website wants to try the possibility of converting the 3000 images into searchable text for future needs. He is not a programmer yet, so he wants to improve his skills I think.

By the way, do you know how to join multiple GIF files into one using ImageMagick. I tried convert -append command, it create one big file, but only one GIF appears.

xaarg Wrote:On the other hand, I really like the pictures. I don't know how text could improve on them. I usually don't edit or search inside my Anki decks. Compared to the audio their size is really negligible.

I do too. But some people prefer text, it's searchable and it make the media folder small.

ahibba Wrote:If I could, I would change it. But you can edit the post only not the title.

Are you sure? There should be a "Subject" line just over the actual content of the post, when you try to edit it. Maybe it does not work anymore, after somebody wrote a reply. Why don't you just send a message to ファブリズ like "Please change the title of the thread '1551 card for KO2001 Book1 - Jp = Image Eng = Text' to 'All your base are belong to us'".

ahibba Wrote:I was going to remove it, but because I can't edit the title, I keep it.

I don't understand. Why would you keep more outdated information only because you can not change the title? Isn't that just more confusing than just an old title on an otherwise up-to-date text?

ahibba Wrote:I wish I can use your text, but unfortunately the title does not indicate the complete deck or what your text is talking about.

Why don't you just state first that the title is no longer accurate? "The title of this post is no longer accurate. Please read about this new and improved deck for KO2001. KO2001 is a product by ... for ..."

ahibba Wrote:Don't you read "This website has no relation in any way with RtK forum, and the material published there does not necessarily reflect our opinions!"?

This is for a judge to decide. Stating your opinion does not make it fact. This kind of "we are not responsible for the illegal things we do" type of message just results in harsher punishment where I am from.

ahibba Wrote:By the way, do you know how to join multiple GIF files into one using ImageMagick. I tried convert -append command, it create one big file, but only one GIF appears.

Define "join"? Do you want to create a gif animation? Do you want to overlay one picture over the other? Do you want to have them side by side? Actually "-append" should do something useful.

convert input1.gif input2.gif -append output.gif

[ファブリス]

Changed topic title to xaarg's suggestion.

Guys I don't have time to follow this, I spent 2h yesterday on the forum and emails instead of coding If xaarg's description above sounds good, someone please confirm by forum pm that the description is fine and, I'll copy paste the code from his post (after all ahibba can't get the BBCode from your formatted description).

Thanks Fabrice. We are sorry for the trouble.

xaarg, now I'm going to change it.

xaarg Wrote:Define "join"? Do you want to create a gif animation? Do you want to overlay one picture over the other? Do you want to have them side by side? Actually "-append" should do something useful.

convert input1.gif input2.gif -append output.gif

Yes, but I want to convert all images in the folder. When I use wild card *.gif I can join few images. I tried it with 4 images and the joining was successful. When I try to joing 100 images for example, what I get is one big file seems to be corrupted.

I use MS-DOS command prompt directly, not batch file or script.

ファブリス Wrote:Guys I don't have time to follow this, I spent 2h yesterday on the forum and emails instead of coding

Just remove the review feature and provide Anki decks instead. Turn all the stories into posts in this forum and then remove the whole study feature. Well, after that there won't be much left besides the forum and a way to manage stories (as an addon to the forum), so there is no more coding for you to do. Just enjoy your time reading this forum and mails!

ファブリス Wrote:(after all ahibba can't get the BBCode from your formatted description).

He just needs to "quote" my post.

ahibba Wrote:When I try to joing 100 images for example, what I get is one big file seems to be corrupted.

Yeah, that happens. Imagemagick is not very robust. Nothing you can do about it except try something different. Maybe your images are too big or there are to much of them or one of them is corrupted or it ran out of memory while doing its work or maybe there were lots of eruptions on the sun at the time. Imagemagick is also really slow.

xaarg Wrote:maybe your images are too big or there are to much of them or one of them is corrupted

Not too big. They're the example sentences GIF files.

xaarg Wrote:or maybe there were lots of eruptions on the sun at the time.

Maybe

[ファブリス]

xaarg: I didn't notice "quote" would do that, as I rarely quote entire posts, cool.

ahibba, it looks like things have cooled down now, and I haven't read every post, but here's some further food for thought: Why don't you try using your real name and posting these same links on your own site? Pay for it, code it, et cetera. That way, instead of anonymously co-opting another site and distracting the site's owner/maintainer with debates about copyright that miss the point of actual legal responsibility, you can passionately live your ideals out in the open and win the support of your peers and the animosity of your opponents?

"Perfume on a turd" springs to mind.

vosmiura Wrote:"Perfume on a turd" springs to mind.

Sorry? I'm not a native speaker, do you mean lipstick on a pig?

No turd here, it's the same thing you did last year, but slightly improved and we were more generous and make it available to the poor around the world.

ahibba Wrote:

vosmiura Wrote:"Perfume on a turd" springs to mind.

Sorry? I'm not a native speaker, do you mean lipstick on a pig?

No turd here, it's the same thing you did last year, but slightly improved and we were more generous and make it available to the poor around the world.

Putting links to CosCom next to an illegal download is "lipstick on a pig/perfume on a turd". In other words, it doesn't make it stink less.

Generous, if generous means no respect for copyright, and anyway I don't think this is improved. Having the text is better. It has the audio, but the audio can be added to a deck with text too.

vosmiura Wrote:Putting links to CosCom next to an illegal download

Where is the illegal download?!

Isn't it the same thing you did last year?

Just because we I added the audio it became illegal?

vosmiura Wrote:giving away stuff that is not yours

Who said it's not mine?

The CD that I extracted the images and their translations from is mine. It's a gift.

and the audio is xaarg's, someone gave it to him, so it became his.

Can't we make use of gifts?

ahibba Wrote:Who said it's not mine?

The CD that I extracted the images and their translations from is mine. It's a gift.

and the audio is xaarg's, someone gave it to him, so it became his.

Can't we make use of gifts?

Perhaps in lala land.

Well, you edited your last part, so ignore my reply to it.

vosmiura Wrote:Having the text is better.

Congratulate me! This morning I succeded in converting the images to text using an excellent OCR. So I'll add the text to the deck.

Are you happy now?

Wow this thread has gotten ugly.

ahibba, regardless of your own personal views on copyright, the deck you have posted is clearly a violation of copyright laws as they stand currently. You can (and have, I might add) argue until you are blue in the face that it shouldn't be like this, but its not going to change anything. Take it up with the legislators, should you care to.

ahibba Wrote:Where is the illegal download?!

Isn't it the same thing you did last year?

Just because we I added the audio it became illegal?

Both projects are probably copyright violations. Claiming that they are "the same" because of this is a superficial analysis at best.

The spreadsheet group took great care to minimise any potential harm that could occur to CosCom by limiting access to only those who can prove ownership. Further, as has already been stated, the spreadsheets add value to CosCom's products by providing a text script (something not provided by the original) of the sentences. Your deck, on the other hand, is a complete reproduction of the book.

So yes, on a superficial level they are both "the same". But the general response from this forum has indicated that one of the two is more socially acceptable from our community's standpoint. (Hint: it's not yours). If you had taken this into account before posting, this mess might have all been avoided. A simple "Message me with your details for access" would certainly have gone down much better, I believe.

Its too late for all of that now, of course, but take a moment to view this from the other perspective and hopefully you should understand why this thread turned into the mess it has.

blackmacros Wrote:The spreadsheet group took great care to minimise any potential harm that could occur to CosCom by limiting access to only those who can prove ownership. Further, as has already been stated, the spreadsheets add value to CosCom's products by providing a text script (something not provided by the original) of the sentences. Your deck, on the other hand, is a complete reproduction of the book.

Nice attempt a justifying doing the exact same thing, just at a lower level. Limiting access doesn't make the other project any more right. That project got leaked onto torrents and if someone wanted to make an issue of it you guys would be just as responsible as anyone else.

And what do you mean the spreadsheets added a text script that was "not provided by the original"? I'm looking at my books and CD right now and yes they most certainly do have text script that goes along with them..........they're just in the book. Want you mean to say is "they didn't provide a text script in a form that we could use in an Anki deck so we could distribute it on the internet while pretending it would never wind up on a torrent."

The very fact that you guys attempted to limit access is all the proof one needs. If you're project was nothing more than an enhancement with no copyright issues then why didn't you give it out freely? The answer: Because you were scared of what might happen. To turn around and point fingers at someone else who has done the same thing, except better in many ways, is simply ridiculous.

I still feel better about the spreadsheet though, unlawful or not. Its more of an enhancement to the original product, something you wouldn't get if you bought KO2001. So the spreadsheet makes the original a better product.

I don't think either are that great from a legal standpoint. But its like modding games. It adds extra content or features and makes buying the original product more desirable. But with this deck, I have no need for the original KO2001.