I just received the download link for the audio for the second book. I will upload a deck with the complete audio for all example sentences in approximatly 2 hours (my upload is really slow...).

Thora Wrote:xaarg: I respect your abilities and spirit of generosity, but I'm puzzled at your decision to create and post links to this material given the site owner's specific request not to. He simply asks that people honour his request, so that he doesn't have to spend time monitoring it.

It seems I read a different message. I understood that we is willing to ignore it, until it brings trouble. To make trouble unlikely he hopes that we don't turn this forum into a warez exchange place by e.g. sharing every single Japanese movie, anime, manga or sond we get our hands on.

If any copyrighted material is allowed here at all, then it surely is Anki decks for popular books used in this forum.

xaarg I love how you did the listening sentences spliced in between. Once you have the rest of the audio done for the second book you definitely just created my dream deck.

And for the record I own both books and the audio CD. If the admins get ticked off about this then xaarg, or myself, could simply restrict access to those that show adequate proof of Coscom support. At that point it would be no different than the KO2001 google document access.

Yeah =D Xaarg, you're awesome =) I'd just like to say a big thank you to you and whoever is sending you the audio, this deck is gonna be awesome =D

xaarg: I interpreted Fabrice's comments differently. The spirit of his request is clear to me. Your narrow interpretation strikes me as a bit self-serving.

The rules of the site are clear and Fabrice has on several occasions in the past politely reminded people of them so that he will not be forced to take action. He's asking people not to make him have to play that role - putting the onus on us to do the right thing (ie. not squeeze in a few while we can)

He requests that folks "redirect people to another forum which actually *welcome* sharing of files? As in, a forum which purpose is to share torrents and such. And then continue the conversation there."

He was willing to let the posts up to that point exist (so long as there are no complaints). The links after that, however, contain the audio as well which [some see as going too far.] edit

He warns that he will delete threads if he receives a complaint. I don't take that to mean that you should continue violating copyright until that occurs. On the contrary, it would be best to prevent that from occurring. Fabrice doesn't need that grief or bad blood with publishers and authors (some of which are potential affiliates even?).

He adds his own personal view that copyright is an unavoidable practical reality in current society which needs to be recognized.

I don't understand your distinction b/w anki decks and other media. A fair dealing exception wouldn't cover digital duplication online of entire books.

Why not simply take the conversation somewhere else? (Restricting one's illegal activity to one's own backyard is generally a good rule of thumb.=]) My opinion doesn't really matter, but fwiw I disagree strongly with making this complete version publicly available here.

Pauline Wrote:Besides, all copyright laws requires a work to reach a certain threshold of originality to qualify. I very much doubt that there are any country which would consider a string of numbers or a combination of names to have enough originality.

Quote:I also don't understand why everyone is bringing up libraries. Libraries aren't free. Authors don't just give books to libraries, the libraries, buy the books. The author gets paid and the library let's you use the books.

Libraries exist to spread knowledge to the population, yet copyright forbids or limits the citizens to do the same.

Even more interesting is that authors protested strongly when libraries were created. They said it was theft of their property, that no one would buy when they could read the work for free at a library and therefore no author would want to write new books.

Copyright laws weren't my point really, it was more about intangible property, however nick names and stage names are protected under copyright laws. As far as numbers go, I'm not sure, but in certain cases even shapes can be protected, so it doesn't seem far fetched.
Copyright does allow you to do the same thing as libraries. You can talk to the author and with his permission give a book to anyone you want. In this case the author has a choice as to if he wants to let you use it or not, but it certainly is possible. With libraries, they don't have a choice, however this is the same as music, so it's not that strange. People aren't libraries, so I don't understand why they would have the same rights.

Anki deck for KO2001 with audio for all example sentences:
*removed links, see the first post in this thread for the current links*

Thora Wrote:The rules of the site are clear and Fabrice has on several occasions in the past politely requested that people respect the rules so that he is not forced to take action.

Which is a smart thing to do if he does not want to be sued by whoever wants him to take action. No knowledge or endorsement means no liabilty where Fabrice comes from. By law he is only required to act, when somebody asks him to.

Thora Wrote:Why not simply take the conversation somewhere else?

I won't mind when somebody re-uploads the deck to e.g. Pirate Bay. In this case I can just remove the files from rapidshare, so the links posted here became invalid.

Is the phyton scypt still necessary?

Teskal Wrote:Is the phyton scypt still necessary?

No, it never was. It was just used by me to create the deck. People with access to the KO2001 spreadsheet might use it to create a custom deck with text instead of images.

I just remembered a funny joke, but unfortunately it is copyrighted! so I can't share it with you now without the permission of its author!

vosmiura Wrote:I'm curious what kind of work do you do that you have such a view about what has value and what doesn't. I work in software, and it has a lot more value than serving coffee

Because of this you defend the arbitrary copyright laws.

You bought KO2001 and you lose some of your money on it, so you don't want to see someone lend it to us for free.

Everything has a value including free things. But this does not mean you must pay for them.

xaarg Wrote:@ahibba: Can you edit the first post in this thread to use these links instead of your no longer working one?

Yes, of course. You're my hero

By the way, your arguments are very convincing.

Chandlerhimself Wrote:Authors don't just give books to libraries, the libraries, buy the books. The author gets paid and the library let's you use the books.

My brother in humanity also buy his books and the authors get paid, then he let us use the books.

Thora Wrote:Ahibba, you are free to create your own site, violate copyright and promote your views on the history, philosophy and reform of intellectual property law. The Rules of this site are quite clear and I don't envision your arguments persuading the owner to change them any time soon.

I did not post any torrents here nor did xaarg. We upload our homemade decks.

By the way, did you lose a lot of money on CosCom products? If so, please don't get upset if some generous people allowed us to use their copies that they bought with their money.

I'm sure that those who attack xaarg and me have benefited from the decks.

xaarg, if you are interested in Essential Japanese verbs CD which contains over 1000 versbs including 350 suru verbs, and over 3000 example sentences with audio (1400 beginner, 1700 intermediate), I can lend you my copy, if you want.

http://www.coscom.co.jp/ebook/e-250vb.html

ahibba Wrote:I'm sure that those who attack xaarg and me have benefited from the decks.

I doubt that actually. Most of the people who are annoyed are the people who've already bought the books (and thus are likely to have the community spreadsheet). They already have everything you've posted as well as actual text versions of the Japanese sentences.

Chandlerhimself Wrote:The point was someone said all information should be free. If people are trying to argue that the information has to increase your knowledge somehow, then how can people justify the copying of fiction books, music, movies, etc. Harry Potter doesn't increase your knowledge anymore than someone SS number. Also credit card debt isn't a real thing either, it's just an idea, however the money you have to pay to get rid of it unfortunately is. When you copy something you lower it's demand and thus it's value. Value of course is an idea, however the money you get for something because of it's value is real and tangible(well if they pay in cash).
It would be nice if people didn't take into account things like supply, demand, labor, etc when setting prices. Lobster in Yokohama would most likely be cheaper than apples. On the other hand I doubt many people would be willing to catch lobsters if that was the case.

Identity theft is an illusion. In a system of 0s and 1 you have no identity. Should someone choose to steal this false identity, it can be easily replaced. It's a major headache at most.

BTW defending artificial demand is as equally absurd as trying to to defend copyright infringement. Don't ask, don't tell is best in these situations.

ahibba: I don't think you understand the concept of lend.

Anyway, it might not be a bad idea to delete this thread. Not only is it getting off topic, but it's also drawing a lot of attention to things that could be a possible legal problem for Fabrice. It doesn't help that when you search for 2001 KO on google, this is one of the first sites that comes up. If you really want to distribute your decks, it might be better to do it though another site.

I think, everyone should test the files xaarg put on rapidshare and if someone can work and benefit from it, should buy the KO-CD. Personally, I buy often a product when I tested it and can use it.

@Xaarg:
I like the 'listen'-section!
Is it very complicated to add this part to other anki-decks?
It would be fine to add it to Core2000 and Core 6000.

Someone should approach Coscom and ask them if they'll distribute the .anki deck on their CD. Users would get the convenience of a ready-made study solution, and Coscom would get paid.

resolve Wrote:Someone should approach Coscom and ask them if they'll distribute the .anki deck on their CD. Users would get the convenience of a ready-made study solution, and Coscom would get paid.

I agree that is a good idea. If not an anki deck then at least a spreadsheet.

Teskal Wrote:I like the 'listen'-section!
Is it very complicated to add this part to other anki-decks?

No, it's easy. If the cards already contain the audio you just need to add a new "Card Template"/"Card Model" with the audio field in the question, e.g. like "Listen.%(Audio)s".

ahibba Wrote:xaarg, if you are interested in Essential Japanese verbs CD which contains over 1000 versbs including 350 suru verbs, and over 3000 example sentences with audio (1400 beginner, 1700 intermediate), I can lend you my copy, if you want.

I already have it, but it does not seem to be popular enough in this forum to make a deck for it. I believe Fabrice would not be pleased if we just post decks for any book that exists.

If somebody really has this ebook and wants a deck for it, just send me a message containg both an image of the physical ebook CD and - on a piece of paper - the email address, where you'd like to receive the rapidshare link to download the deck.

resolve Wrote:Someone should approach Coscom and ask them if they'll distribute the .anki deck on their CD. Users would get the convenience of a ready-made study solution, and Coscom would get paid.

I wonder it it is easy to add an Anki deck to the CD that can be easily copied to the hard drive (including the audio) without changing the current layout of the CD. It seems there is not enough space left to store the audio twice.

Chandlerhimself Wrote:I agree that is a good idea. If not an anki deck then at least a spreadsheet.

That sounds easy to do. A csv file using utf-8 would be best.

Chandlerhimself Wrote:Anyway, it might not be a bad idea to delete this thread.

If Fabrice really wants that, then removing the links in the first post of this thread should be sufficient. I removed all other links to Coscom content either by editing my own posts or by removing the files from rapidshare, if somebody else quoted my link. The links to my scripts are still there and valid, but those do not violate any kind of copyright law. I created them all by myself.

Quote:I wonder it it is easy to add a Anki deck to the CD that can be easily copied to the harddrive (including the audio) without changing the current layout of the CD. It seems there is not enough space left to store the audio twice.

It would be quite easy. The original filenames could be copied into a .media directory with a .bat file or install script.

resolve Wrote:It would be quite easy. The original filenames could be copied into a .media directory with a .bat file or install script.

That's not gonna happen. They store the Japanese content as images, because they believe most of their users are unable to install proper support for it and I think they are right. It is unreasonable to assume an average Windows user will be able to launch some sort of batch script. Their head will just explode, if you ask them to do this.

One of the other ebooks uses Japanese text and has a ***** 8 A4 pages (according to Firefox's print preview) step-by-step guide with 12 images on how to enable proper display of Japanese in Internet Explorer on English Windows XP.

I guess the best way would be an Anki plugin, that asks you where the CD root is and just creates the deck all by itself. It could even be a regular shared plugin, that you can download using Anki's menu. Does not really seem that difficult, but I am too lazy to merge my scripts into a single Anki plugin. I guess the Python distributed with the Windows version of Anki does not contain pythonmagick or something similar to remove the furigana?

ahibba Wrote:xaarg re-created the decks with audio for all example sentences, for book1 and book2 (more than 3000 cards):

Actually there are now more than 6000 cards (namely 6208 cards), because there are "Recognition" and "Listening" cards.

xaarg Wrote:I already have it, but it does not seem to be popular enough in this forum to make a deck for it. I believe Fabrice would not be pleased if we just post decks for any book that exists.

I'm not asking you to make a deck for it. I just wanted to give you a gift

I can make the deck myself, and anyone can make it using your script with some modification.

xaarg Wrote:I removed all other links to Coscom content either by editing my own posts or by removing the files from rapidshare, if somebody else quoted my link.

Why did you remove the links from your posts?

You said that you removed the files from rapidshare, but they are still there. Are you going to remove them? why?

xaarg Wrote:Actually there are now more than 6000 cards (namely 6208 cards), because there are "Recognition" and "Listening" cards.

Thank you for the correction. I'll edit my post.

ahibba Wrote:I can make the deck myself, and anyone can make it using your script with some modification.

Probably quite a bit of modification is needed. There are no images in this one but real Japanese text. It even contains quite a few of the KO2001 kanji as text with their numbers as references and other goodies.

ahibba Wrote:Why did you remove the links from your posts?

To make it easier for Fabrice to clean the thread if needed, because he just needs to edit the first post. This should avoid getting this thread deleted if Fabrice is forced to step in.

ahibba Wrote:You said that you removed the files from rapidshare, but they are still there. Are you going to remove them? why?

I just removed the old versions of the deck (no audio, audo only for the first half), because somebody quoted my links to them and I can not edit their posts. This way the only links to copyrighted content are in the first post. Besides why would anybody want a version of the deck with only half of the audio if you can get all of it for the same low price?

xaarg Wrote:There are no images in this one but real Japanese text. It even contains quite a few of the KO2001 kanji as text with their numbers as references and other goodies.

This is good news. I have the CD but I didn't try it yet.

I will try to make a deck similar to your KO2001 deck, and I'll offer it to anyone need it at my own risk

xaarg Wrote:To make it easier for Fabrice to clean the thread if needed, because he just needs to edit the first post. This should avoid getting this thread deleted if Fabrice is forced to step in.

I too will remove the links in the first post, and anyone need them, just send me a PM.

[ファブリス]

xaarg Wrote:I understood that we is willing to ignore it, until it brings trouble. To make trouble unlikely he hopes that we don't turn this forum into a warez exchange place by e.g. sharing every single Japanese movie, anime, manga or sond we get our hands on.

I am willing to ignore it, yes.

To be precise, I don't want and will not let this forum to start looking like a warez site, whether trouble is expected to come or not. That's quite an important difference. Even if the forum guidelines are often out of date, that's the same idea:

forum guidelines Wrote:this community is about learning Japanese (primarily), sharing one's insights and experiences with languages, encouragement and growth. This is not the place for sharing illegal downloads, there are other places for that.

Like I said, I will ignore this one. I will obviously not sticky those topics either.

The thing that bothers me more than the links actually, is that one shares content that was not asked for in the first place. I am willing to ignore some threads where people share decks based on copyrighted material, when the purpose is to help each other out, knowing that they are one-off occurences. But starting a topic with the purpose of sharing these downloads imho, is not suited to this forum! You're not going to earn "XP", "gold" or any other credit for doing so here obviously. Just something to consider.

I'm just trying to advocate a "line in the middle", and hope you can all appreciate that. I don't want to police each and every topic with links to rapidshare and such, but I don't want to see these sort of topics too often either, that's all. So please keep this in mind, before needlessly posting links to questionable downloads.

ファブリス Fabrice Wrote:I am not against users sharing decks based partly or entirely on copyrighted material, when a user is answering to someone else in need of a deck or something.

I am willing to ignore when users post such links when they are helping each other out.

Posting links to direct downloads of unedited copyrighted material (videos, music, ebooks, ...) will be deleted

Thank you Fabrice for clarification.

No unedited copyrighted material (videos, music, ebooks, ...)

But if somebody needs something we have, we can answer him/her.

Now, anyone needs my decks or the decks that xaarg uploaded before, just send me a PM... (with your pic holding a sign saying: viva ahibba, viva CosCom!)