So about me: I've just finished RTK1 (yay!), though I still have a lot of reviewing to do, I'm ready to move on to...I don't know. There are a LOT of threads on this forum on RTK2, Kanjichains, KanjiTown, The Movie Method, books like Kanji Odyssey and Kanji in Context, etc. And it's great that there is so much information out there, but it is a bit overwhelming. Not just the various methods themselves but the threads on them alone, on this site alone...I've been surfing through them for the last few days and feel dizzy.

So here are some questions of mine; I hope I'm being clear with these and not contributing to the general sense of confusion about this.

I've looked at RTK2 and it seems like a "brute force" method of learning, one I would be frustrated and bored with pretty quickly. So that leaves the other methods. I would like to use Anki for one or more of these. Regarding, say, the Movie Method, how do I start? I get the concept, but once I fire up Anki, what do I do? Which methods have pre-made decks I can download from somewhere and which ones do I need to do painstakingly, word for word?

How about offline? I just purchased the Kodansha Kanji Learner's Dictionary, which seems like a GREAT resource. How do you use your Kodansha dictionary?

Finally, I see these tantalizing previews and hints about the Trinity website. Am I just dim or is it not up yet? I would LOVE to be able to continue on this website (or a sister site thereof). Is Trinity up and running? If not (Fabrice!), then when?

I just finished RtK not long ago, also.. I've been doing my reviews, but haven't moved onto anything else just yet... I, too, am wondering what my next path should be.

Kanji wise, RtK was my first exposure.

Japanese grammar, I'm a little familiar with, on a very basic level.

I'm looking for an efficient way to link Kanji with the grammar I know, while also expanding my vocabulary.. or the next most recommended method.

rtk, tae kim, genki, kanji odyssey 2001, then on to more real resources like japanese literature, manga, tv shows, movies, etc.

That is what i am doing, i am to the kanji odyssey step.

For the record, the kanji odyssey spreadsheet torrent has numerous errors in it, i have it and the real books for comparison. Use the torrent at your own risk.

Since you've already completed RTK1 I wouldn't bother with the movie method. If I went back in time and could start from square one I would do it but I honestly don't think it is worth the effort at this point.

The fairly "proven" method on this forum, from what I have seen at least, is:

1. RTK1

2. Basic grammar sentences. We could argue for days on this but honestly in the end it doesn't really matter. Grab any source that covers most of JLPT level 3 & 4 grammar and that gives you 3-4 example sentences for each grammar point. I've got a stack of grammar books and I recommend, along with several others who all recommend it equally, the book Japanese Sentence Patterns for Effective Communication. The book is ultra concise with it's explanations, which is exactly what you want, cheap, and provides 7-8 good example sentences per point. Someone on this site has also already kindly made a spread sheet of all the sentences. Book can be bought here: http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Sentence-...4770029837

3. Vocabulary. Once again it's up to you and there is no wrong answer but *most* people think KO2001 has the most efficient vocab listing.

4. While you are doing all of this get as much input from other sources as possible.

cool, I just ordered that book. concise is good.

Question, what's genki?

Genki is a Japanese textbook in two volumes published by The Japan Times. It's used by a lot of universities, etc. and it tends to be better for self-study than many other textbooks. My university used Nakama, which I thought was great, but my boyfriend is self-studying from Genki.

http://www.amazon.com/Genki-Integrated-C...4789009637

Textbooks can be helpful. I can't imagine learning basic grammar just through Tae Kim, even though many people seem fine with it. I like to have a chance to try using a grammar point in a variety of examples in order to get a real feel for it, and to help with production.

I'd recommend Minna no Nihongo or Japanese in Mangaland over Genki. The dialogues in Genki are very unnatural, and I don't like books that treat me like I'm a 5 year old--though other people I've talked to have enjoyed Genki. (I didn't do Genki 1, but I did all of Genki 2 in a semester abroad in Japan)

Though, now that I'm at an intermediate level I'm not very interested in textbooks. They helped a lot early on!

I'm planning on looking through Tae Kim's guide and picking up what I can and also using UBJG + AAP + Genki1 where needed. I already have some basic understanding so I'm just gonna take what is i+1 and move on, should be fun though since I've only been doing RTK with the movie method for 3.5 months. It will be nice to start learning Japanese again.

Tzadeck Wrote:Textbooks can be helpful. I can't imagine learning basic grammar just through Tae Kim, even though many people seem fine with it. I like to have a chance to try using a grammar point in a variety of examples in order to get a real feel for it, and to help with production.

My Uni class uses Yookoso! (haven't seen the textbooks you recommend) and Tae Kim is much, much better at explaining the grammar and providing example sentences. In fact, I haven't opened my textbook at all since I started AJATT. RtK + Tae Kim + KO2001 +heaps of native stuff is so much more effective than anything my Uni class is doing.

If you're going the Tae Kim/JSPfEC/KO2001 route, Genki (or any other basic textbook) would be pretty redundant.

blackmacros Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:Textbooks can be helpful. I can't imagine learning basic grammar just through Tae Kim, even though many people seem fine with it. I like to have a chance to try using a grammar point in a variety of examples in order to get a real feel for it, and to help with production.

My Uni class uses Yookoso! (haven't seen the textbooks you recommend) and Tae Kim is much, much better at explaining the grammar and providing example sentences. In fact, I haven't opened my textbook at all since I started AJATT. RtK + Tae Kim + KO2001 +heaps of native stuff is so much more effective than anything my Uni class is doing.

To be fair, I've heard that Yookoso is absolutely horrible (when I studied with Genki II, the students who had used Yookoso said that Genki was a refreshing change). Personally, I used Japanese: The Spoken Language before coming to Japan. It was great, and I learned much more from that book than anything else I've tried--I believe it's been more helpful to my Japanese than RTK or SRSing in general. When I studied in Japan I could talk circles around my classmates. Not to mention, I've met quite a few completely fluent people who had used that book and method.

I've only used a few chapters of Minna no Nihongo for review with a tutor I once had, and I've never used the Mangaland books. But, looking through them, they look a lot better than Genki so that's why I recommended them. I'd recommend Japanese: The Spoken Language, but it's pretty much useless outside of a classroom (and doesn't help with reading or writing at all).

Edit: Also, I realize that a lot of Uni classes suck, but mine didn't at all. I realize that Tae Kim works for some people, but I don't think it would work for me. I only heard about it after I was good enough at Japanese to not need it. So, I never got to try and make sure.

Tae Kims was enough for me... I've tried genki before after recommendations from people, but I got about 2 chapters in and got bored... (If you do decide to use it, I would just download it and mine the sentences, don't bother doing the excersizes...)

If you want to jump straight into the sentence method, then I think your best bet would be to mine Tae Kims and then start getting sentences from manga, news articles, subs2srs etc, much more fun =D

Akahige, as you can see, there are many different approaches, and for the most part they're all correct. That's partly the reason there's many different threads with lengthy discussions on matters.

To be honest, the choice you make is not as important as actually making the choice and doing it.

Example would be to finally say: Ok, I'm going to learn Onyomi first, and I'm going to use Movie Method, and I'm going to use http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=r...vy9p3_RAFA as a rough guide. Then get to it.

Or: Ok, I'm going to learn basic grammar first. I'll use Tae Kim since it's free, and I'll use that deck that's on Anki already.

Or: Ok, I'm going to learn basic grammar first. I'll buy Japanese Sentence Patterns for Effective Communication, and get access to the spreadsheets to get sentences into Anki.

Just make the decision and don't second guess it. Later you can switch up if you feel it's prudent. That's the beauty of Anki.

Nukemarine Wrote:Just make the decision and don't second guess it. Later you can switch up if you feel it's prudent. That's the beauty of Anki.

This really is the best advice. I think a lot of us, including myself, have wasted time worrying "omg I hope I'm making the right choice going with book X". Just pick something that is decently recommended, and that you think you'll like, and then get to work.

Actively learning Japanese from the "second best" method will always be better than sitting waiting for the "best" method to reveal itself.

activeaero Wrote:

Nukemarine Wrote:Just make the decision and don't second guess it. Later you can switch up if you feel it's prudent. That's the beauty of Anki.

This really is the best advice. I think a lot of us, including myself, have wasted time worrying "omg I hope I'm making the right choice going with book X". Just pick something that is decently recommended, and that you think you'll like, and then get to work.

Actively learning Japanese from the "second best" method will always be better than sitting waiting for the "best" method to reveal itself.

I agree. I have started with a course I saw in a language shop, that no one mentions here: "Ultimate Japanese-Basic & Intermediate" Plenty of audio and introduces grammar quite fast. I also subscribed to YesJapan and bought the first book. It goes into kana faster than Ultimate Japanese.
I don't mind the redundancy, I get easily distracted/bored and they've quite different layouts and emphasis. I study primarily RtK, which I've started again, this time more intensely. Once I'm done with it, I'll complement the two mentioned books with Tae Kim, which is even more redundant, and some books from college, like All About Particles, etc. I figure, at my level, no effort will be wasted.

Jeromin Wrote:I study primarily RtK, which I've started again, this time more intensely.

This is true. Never underestimate the effort of reviewing what you learned. After completing RTK highest priority is to review all these kanjis. Which can be as challenging as learning them for the first time. It's very helpful to do this reviews with the same keywords and do not change them. If you add more kanjis later on, you will be happy to have strongly linked your then-needed primitives to strong keywords.

"An Integrated Course into Intermediate Japanese", by the Japan Times is excellent. Although I've been studying Japanese for 4 years or so in and outside of school, so I'm not sure in terms of beginners. It certainly isn't that difficult, it's just more 'later on' grammar than 'essential' grammar. It comes with 2 accompanying CDs which are also very good. Should be a lot easier for someone who knows the RTK2 Kanji. After 4 years, I personally only knew 400 Kanji, and thought that learning more would be an extremely difficult challenge, only being taught the repetitive method. Found RTK by chance on the net, and bam, my Japanese has gone from good to great.
I've used Anki for RTK1 and have found it a necessity.