Im one of the beta testers for the Ankidroid app. Winthin the last two months it really has taken shape.

Fully featured srs
furigana support
and it syncs (the beta at least)

Its free. as in $0. Ive been using it as a on the go replacement since the release and love it.

I think it's wonderful that Anki on the Android is a viable option now, and it doesn't surprise me that an open source version of Anki sprang up, as Android is much more conducive to open source development. But porting it was a lot of work - it took Edu over 100 hours to port Anki's syncing code, for example. How much longer do you think it would have taken if they hadn't had the Anki desktop sources to go off? So while you rejoice in getting good Android software for free on a thread about an iPhone app, please spare a thought for all the work that went into its creation, and the four years of work that went into the desktop client it was based off.

To quote: "If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants."

I could not have come as far as I have if not for the great work of others in this community. Thanks to you all, and especially to both of you Damien and Fabrice.

Just popping in to say that I'll be picking it up early on as well. Dropping the whole 'but you can get it free for <blah>' mess in this thread is a little uncool -- the fact that Damien has busted his ass for so many hours previously and opened it up is a large part of the reason you've got it for free on the other platforms anyway.

No real need to rain on the parade just because he's trying to (deservedly) make a living on his effort on another platform.

I'll be buying it too. I remember when Damien personally fixed my 6000 item deck when it went all screwy.

Without Anki, I wouldn't be knocking on the door of JLPT1級 in two years...
It also cleverly times with leaving Japan, cancelling my iPhone contract, yet keeping the phone itself. Anki, offline, syncable. Perfect.

Nukemarine Wrote:To quote: "If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants."

I could not have come as far as I have if not for the great work of others in this community. Thanks to you all, and especially to both of you Damien and Fabrice.

Couldn't have said it better myself - HUGE Thank you!

I am pumped for this app - can't wait to buy it for my touch.

I also will promote it with the university project I am working on - I think college students would love to have this.

Quote:The iPhone app is not open source because I need money to eat. Having quit my regular job to work on Anki, I am living incredibly tight at the moment (and it would simply not be possible without the support of my wife). I can't afford to spend months working on an iPhone port simply to have someone take the open code and repackage it for free. If you have better ideas on how I can get enough money to live and still work on Anki then I welcome them.

I'm going to take your question seriously, despite the defensive tone.

Nobody forced you to quit your regular job (!!!) to work on Anki; that was a judgment call you made (a bad one in my opinion). I think you should have kept your job and worked on Anki in your spare time, like most people who start small free software applications. Moreover, like most, you've been receiving donations for your work. I gladly donated $25 USD in the past because I was happy to donate to my favourite free software SRS application.

Had you released the iPhone app under the GPL like the desktop client, other people would have been able to make progress on the app and saved you however many months you've wasted going it alone. As for someone "repackaging" the code for free, that's going to happen anyway when a cracked copy is released on P2P filesharing networks. The people tech-savvy enough to download a GPL-licensed app for free, outside the Apple store, are surely tech-savvy enough to get a cracked copy. That's why your argument doesn't work.

Lastly, I would like to ask if Blahaha is connected to the iPhone app in any capacity as developer. If so, then I think it's misleading for him to act like he's just learned the app will be released. If not, then I say to Blahaha: Why are you answering legal details of Damien's app for him? Please stop.

You see, Damien, you still haven't answered my question: Have you copyrighted or patented the SRS algorithm used in the iPhone app or Anki software? What did Blahaha mean by "intellectual property rights for the concept and logic of the program"?

resolve Wrote:I think it's wonderful that Anki on the Android is a viable option now, and it doesn't surprise me that an open source version of Anki sprang up, as Android is much more conducive to open source development. But porting it was a lot of work - it took Edu over 100 hours to port Anki's syncing code, for example. How much longer do you think it would have taken if they hadn't had the Anki desktop sources to go off? So while you rejoice in getting good Android software for free on a thread about an iPhone app, please spare a thought for all the work that went into its creation, and the four years of work that went into the desktop client it was based off.

Having read this post, I have to ask:

Damien, did you even read the GPL?! When you used the GPL for Anki's desktop client, you forfeited any right to demand money from people using it. Your post above implies disapproval of a free software Android port that earns you no money, but that's exactly the point behind the GPL; people can take the software and build upon it without asking your permission.

I don't understand what you mean, "it doesn't surprise me that an open source version of Anki sprang up, as Android is much more conducive to open source development". Anki was already open source before it was ported to Android. I have to question your knowledge of your own software, given these (and earlier) comments.

ninetimes Wrote:Just popping in to say that I'll be picking it up early on as well. Dropping the whole 'but you can get it free for <blah>' mess in this thread is a little uncool -- the fact that Damien has busted his ass for so many hours previously and opened it up is a large part of the reason you've got it for free on the other platforms anyway.

No real need to rain on the parade just because he's trying to (deservedly) make a living on his effort on another platform.

I disagree. Writing, releasing and directing people to free software distributions of Anki is precisely the point of the GPL. If Damien didn't want that, then he shouldn't have used the GPL in the first place. It's also well within the topic of this thread.

Why does Damien deserve to make a living from Anki? I use Anki and love it, but realistically people like us are in the minority. I don't think the program will make a lot of money. Nevertheless, Damien is well within his rights to sell it, even were he to license it under the GPL. But it's a foolish man who puts all his eggs in one basket, so I stand by my earlier statement that Damien should not have quit his job to work full-time on an iPhone app.

It's not a stretch to think Damien can get a contract or even a big licensing fee for a government or corporation to use his program in various training programs.

Hell, it's no stretch of the imagination for Anki to be modified for use in a long term electronic or nuclear schools in the US Navy. Many of those have gone NIDA computer based self paced route. Having personal experience with the lack of quality students that system is currently putting out, I think Anki implemented as a control measure would improve the type of electronic personnel that the US Navy is getting. Just adapt Anki so it calls upon a data base of question that are activated as a student progresses through the course. This can then be carried over to future schools, then finally put on the sailor's Navy Knowledge Online account where he can add advancement exam questions. And that's just one example among many.

So yeah, getting a donation here or there, selling an iPhone app here or there is good and all. But the real cash is going to be with selling Anki to corporations and governments. It may have seem stupid to quit a job to work on Anki full time, but this may be the gamble that pays off.

abdwef Wrote:I don't think the program will make a lot of money.

You sound concerned.

abdwef Wrote:Nobody forced you to quit your regular job (!!!) to work on Anki; that was a judgment call you made (a bad one in my opinion).

The work required had grown into a full time job. As I explained on the Anki forums, my wife got a new job which required us to move. Working on Anki was taking up a lot of my time and while I could support that on a 3/4 load English teaching job, I don't think an IT job in Japan would leave me with much time or motivation to work on Anki. It was either give up on Anki or figure out a way to make enough money to support further development. I'm not trying to get rich; as long as I'm making enough money to survive then I'd rather be working on something I believe in.

Quote:Moreover, like most, you've been receiving donations for your work. I gladly donated $25 USD in the past because I was happy to donate to my favourite free software SRS application.

I am grateful for the donations, but I can't live off them. I'm not going to pull a Tom Lord and beg people for donations - over the coming months I will be working very hard on things like the iPhone app and AnkiOnline to provide something that didn't previously exist that I hope people will think is worth paying for.

Quote:Had you released the iPhone app under the GPL like the desktop client, other people would have been able to make progress on the app and saved you however many months you've wasted going it alone.

Actually, what would have happened is probably what would have happened with the desktop client codebase - I'd do almost all the work and receive a few patches occasionally. There have been some good plugins developed for the desktop client, but plugins are not an option on the Apple platform, and having to pay $100 to join the developer program cuts out most of the casual programmers.

Not to mention the whole StudyArcade saga, where he solicited money from users to buy a laptop to build a free version of Anki, which ended up being closed source and not very much like Anki at all.

Are you a developer? This notion that programmers will just spring up and it will all magically get developed if it's made open doesn't really fly with my own real world experience.

Quote:As for someone "repackaging" the code for free, that's going to happen anyway when a cracked copy is released on P2P filesharing networks.

"They're going to steal it anyway, you may as well make it free"

I'm not worried about people who pirate because they can't afford the app. I'm worried about people trying to make a quick buck by taking my work, repackaging it, and selling it on the app store for a cheaper price.

Quote:Lastly, I would like to ask if Blahaha is connected to the iPhone app in any capacity as developer. If so, then I think it's misleading for him to act like he's just learned the app will be released. If not, then I say to Blahaha: Why are you answering legal details of Damien's app for him? Please stop.

Blahaha was one of the beta testers. He does not have access to the code or have any other relation to me. I don't see any problem with the way he's behaved, and he was commenting on legal scenario which is not a special case.

Quote:You see, Damien, you still haven't answered my question: Have you copyrighted or patented the SRS algorithm used in the iPhone app or Anki software? What did Blahaha mean by "intellectual property rights for the concept and logic of the program"?

I own the copyright to the code I've written. I license that code to you under the GPL. If I choose to license that code under a different license, that's my perogative. It doesn't affect any previously released code - that is a freedom that the GPL bestows upon you - but it also doesn't restrict the developer from licensing their code differently in the future. The GPL is a promise that you will be able to do almost anything with the code you've received. It is not a promise that the developer will continue to selflessly provide you with updates to the code for life.

I have no intention of changing the license on the desktop client. But you're acting like I'm not within my rights to take the last 4 years of work, repackage it in a convenient iPhone app, and try to make some money off it. Frankly, I think this is a very selfish attitude.

Quote:Damien, did you even read the GPL?! When you used the GPL for Anki's desktop client, you forfeited any right to demand money from people using it. Your post above implies disapproval of a free software Android port that earns you no money

The AnkiDroid project has my full blessing. I was expressing disapproval at draal's posting, not the AnkiDroid project.

I'm afraid I have to suggest that it is you who don't understand the GPL. Your indignation at the iPhone app not being free is entirely unjustified. I am not taking other people's work and trying to make a quick buck. All of the code in the iPhone client was written by myself, ported from code which was written by myself in the desktop client.

Quote:Why does Damien deserve to make a living from Anki?

...because I've worked my arse off for the last 4 years for very little? Because I am trying to make enough money to get by while continuing to provide a free, mature desktop application on three platforms? I'm afraid I don't understand where you're coming from - this comment just looks spiteful.

I'd understand the negative attitude towards Damien if he was re-licencing everything (including the desktop client), killing his servers without notice and asking for subscriptions, etc.

He's said many times the desktop client will remain free and open, there will be alternatives to the revamped AnkiOnline syncing, and not to mention there's still AnkiMini.

He's just charging for convenience/features/more reliable support, but keeping the core free. I don't see what the fuss is about.

While I normally just lurk around these forums, I felt the urge to post my 2cents on this thread.

As someone who has taken some time to look around the code, contributed a little to Ankidroid (furigana and card editing support), and recently gotten into iPhone development, I have to say that Anki is a great piece of software that so many of us have had the privilege to use. It's clear to me that the a lot of time and love has gone into this program.

This iPhone app doesn't take anything away from the Anki we all know and love. There's no harm being done here. We all just happen to be getting more options and more convenience. I personally look forward to purchasing the app when it is released and hope for nothing but the best success for Damien.

I don't see what the big deal is either. If the app is sound then I'm happy to pay for the convenience.

How fast is reviewing going to be on the new software? For AnkiMini, I generally can read the line faster than it takes to load the answer, then I have to wait for the next card to load. I only use text, so hopefully it'll be faster!

It's not instantaneous like the desktop app, but it's a fair bit faster than AnkiMini.

@abdwef - Listen to bebio.

avparker Wrote:I don't see the first version adding a huge amount of functionality over iAnki, although the improved usability should be nice (as well as undo!). But I'll be tempted to get it just to show support.

Same here.

While I am not an iPhone or iPod-Touch user, if I WAS, I would buy the Anki app without hesitation; however, I do use an Android phone, and I'd pay twice as much in a heartbeat for an Anki app for Android that supports sound and syncing of decks.

Unfortunately, not having sound makes Anki mostly useless for me, since I'm only focusing on speech and not written language, for a while at least.

*EDIT* Oh Snap! Audio does work in AnkiDroid! It just doesn't work if your deck directory is somewhere other than default. I'd still pay the same amount though, just for syncing alone. I've heard it can be done with Dropbox and finagling, but I value simplicity and elegance, and that becomes more important when one is using multiple platforms and devices. Also, I cannot find a way to play back audio, like hitting F5 as with the desktop client. Kind of an important feature, heh.

abdwef Wrote:Lastly, I would like to ask if Blahaha is connected to the iPhone app in any capacity as developer. If so, then I think it's misleading for him to act like he's just learned the app will be released. If not, then I say to Blahaha: Why are you answering legal details of Damien's app for him? Please stop.

No, I'm not connected with iPhone app except as a beta tester. I certainly didn't act like I just learned it would be released either - I just acted like I wanted to draw attention to it, which I do.

abdwef Wrote:What did Blahaha mean by "intellectual property rights for the concept and logic of the program"?

I think it's pretty clear what the licensing situation is. My comment is also straightforward - whilst the desktop and backend code itself is released under the GPL, Damien is within his rights to port the logic of the program (he is the creator, i.e. it's his intellectual property which he licenses to others) to another platform under a different license. As it turns out, there are others who contributed small parts of the code and their permission was sought too.

As for "Why does Damien deserve to make money from Anki?", that's a facetious question (as they all were). Why do you deserve to make money from your job? Because you work for it.

To clarify though, I don't believe any user contributed code is in the iPhone port. The user contributed code lies in the kanji statistics, some i18n functions, model cloning, perhaps other parts I've forgotten. None of those are in the iPhone port. I had asked all contributors to dual license their contributions for the purposes of AnkiOnline, but I don't believe it's an issue here.

brandon7s Wrote:just for syncing alone

Syncing is in beta testing at the moment in AnkiDroid. By the sounds of it, it's pretty stable.

Any plans for an official Android Anki app? AFAIK AnkiDroid still requires rooting and AnkiMini is slow and somewhat cumbersome to use. I'd pay good money for a well functioning, no-hassle Android Anki.

I've yet to get my hands on an Android device (hopefully next month), but as far as I know AnkiDroid doesn't require rooting (except maybe if you want custom fonts?). You may want to ask on the AnkiDroid list.

The tools I used to write the iPhone port let me target other platforms much more easily than starting anew, so BlackBerry and Android ports, and possibly Windows7 and WebOS, might come in the future. I plan to add a bunch of extra features first, though - it doesn't make sense to ask people to pay for something that is very similar to a free alternative.