mafried Wrote:The point is not whether piracy is bad for business. I used to work in the game industry, so I know that piracy can actually help the acceptance of a product, to a certain extent. The problem is what kind of image we as a community present to CosCom if we blatantly steal their products. If that were the case, they'd very likely be unresponsive to customer service requests or feature suggestions in the future. And that's a legitimate concern, I think.

Unresponsive customer service would only hurt the company.

It's only stealing if you didn't buy it. I won't say that everyone who DLs buys. I will say that if they don't pay for it they'd have probably just got the DL in another form from another source. There is no accounting for that sort of thing.

At least here you are seeing, "Yes I did this" however "I also did that." You'd have to be ignorant to just be mad at DLing in general. It's unavoidable. Even if it became avoiding, something else would pop it to replace it.

xaarg Wrote:

Thora Wrote:Why silly?

You can download the new edition of the ebook that includes the audio files from bittorrent, but you can not get access to a simple spreadsheet of its content without visual proof that you own the book.

I see. Then why not just get the ebook, stop proofreading, say nothing and let other people make their own choices about copyright? (I hope you're not offended, Codexus. I genuinely couldn't understand your motivation.)

Seems like a good outcome though. The KO digitizers won't need to worry about future requests, this site doesn't need to be the conduit, and I can stay out of it. =]

Thora Wrote:I hope you're not offended, Codexus. I genuinely couldn't understand your motivation.)

No problem. And I hope you weren't offended either. Also I'm also grateful to whoever contributed to the spreadsheets.

I understand the reasons of the contributors for wanting to avoid encouraging piracy and just making it a service for people who have bought the book. However, I think there are a lot of people who are not going to get the files if they have to go through extra trouble to prove that they own the books.

Also I think the value of the KO2001 books is a lot of higher because of the availability of those spreadsheets (I don't think I would have bought them if they didn't exist).

I think you're right actually lol. I don't know if I would have bought the books without those spreadsheets. And I'm fairly sure I would have paid extra for access to the spreadsheets. I think they are of equal, or perhaps greater, value than the book itself. Coscom really should include their sentences in text format.

Codexus Wrote:... I think there are a lot of people who are not going to get the files if they have to go through extra trouble to prove that they own the books.

But emailing a photo is far less trouble than typing in the whole book. Seems like an easy choice to me. =] (not a convenient longterm solution, admittedly).

I did buy the books, but then couldn't find anybody to invite me to the document. Is anybody out there with the ability to invite to the up-to-date version?

welldone101 Wrote:The books rock. Buy them, stick them on your shelf and never look at em if you want to use the pirated ebook.

I own RtK 1+2, but use the pdf instead because it's handier. When I get to vol. 3 I'll buy the book first. And when I'm done, I'll donate all three books to my college library, since they have a Japanese department. It's only fair, I don't think I would have ever mastered Kanji without Mr. Heisig's books, too tough for the likes of me.

Jeromin Wrote:

welldone101 Wrote:The books rock. Buy them, stick them on your shelf and never look at em if you want to use the pirated ebook.

I own RtK 1+2, but use the pdf instead because it's handier. When I get to vol. 3 I'll buy the book first. And when I'm done, I'll donate all three books to my college library, since they have a Japanese department. It's only fair, I don't think I would have ever mastered Kanji without Mr. Heisig's books, too tough for the likes of me.

For book 1 send an email to Vosmiura, for book 2 to rich_f. They can give access to the google docs spreadsheets.

Jeromin Wrote:

welldone101 Wrote:The books rock. Buy them, stick them on your shelf and never look at em if you want to use the pirated ebook.

I own RtK 1+2, but use the pdf instead because it's handier. When I get to vol. 3 I'll buy the book first. And when I'm done, I'll donate all three books to my college library, since they have a Japanese department. It's only fair, I don't think I would have ever mastered Kanji without Mr. Heisig's books, too tough for the likes of me.

But then all the people who check the book out will be using Heisig for free. Don't support libraries! It is stealing

LOL

I know it is not a popular view in this world where consumerism is taught to us as the highest path to happiness, but to buy a new book and just to let it sit on a shelf collecting dust is in my opinion immoral. Much more so than using a creative source without giving compensation. Books are made from a resource that is being consumed faster than it can renew itself, trees. When they are gone, we will follow. All of us, including those we are supporting by buying their products. I am grateful for the shared insights from these books but publishers must evolve or go the way of the irresponsible American auto maker. Either switching to a renewable material like hemp fiber or going full electronic. They are a creative bunch. They will make it work if driven by the consumer.
As a semi-related point: In this world, multitudes of people die from simply a lack of money to buy medicine, food and clean water. Spend your own money responsibly on things you actually use. Use what is left in creative ways to help make others' lives livable. Vacation in a developing country, rent a modest room and keep your eyes open. Use that imagination you unlocked creating stories with RTK and see what happens.
Anyways, sorry for further derailing the thread.

bodhisamaya Wrote:But then all the people who check the book out will be using Heisig for free. Don't support libraries! It is stealing

Good point. Support public libraries and support copyright. A bit of a contradiction, right?
I just go by what I wouldn't be embarrassed to admit to the author. "Love your books, Mr. Heisig! Mind signing me this pdf printout? Big fan!"

I have a question for those who make the spreadsheets of KO2001, why did you make it? what is the purpose?

Jeromin Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:But then all the people who check the book out will be using Heisig for free. Don't support libraries! It is stealing

Good point. Support public libraries and support copyright. A bit of a contradiction, right?
I just go by what I wouldn't be embarrassed to admit to the author. "Love your books, Mr. Heisig! Mind signing me this pdf printout? Big fan!"

I exchanged emails with him last year. He expressed to me this issue isn't important to him. His main focus in life is on comparative religious studies so if you had a well thought out reason why you wanted him to sign a pdf printout, I would guess he would be open to hearing it. Though I do feel he misunderstands, as do most Catholic scholars, the difference between Nothingness (Nihilism) and the view of Emptiness (Interdependence) in relation to Buddhism.

ahibba Wrote:I have a question for those who make the spreadsheets of KO2001, why did you make it? what is the purpose?

To save time entering them into an SRS.

Jeromin Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:But then all the people who check the book out will be using Heisig for free. Don't support libraries! It is stealing

Good point. Support public libraries and support copyright. A bit of a contradiction, right?"

Libraries and library users respect copyright, because they are not creating extra copies of the books - merely time-sharing the ones that they bought.

bodhisamaya Wrote:Though I do feel he misunderstands, as do most Catholic scholars, the difference between Nothingness (Nihilism) and the view of Emptiness (Interdependence) in relation to Buddhism.

Wish I knew the difference sooner myself. I'd have spent less time not caring and more time caring not to care. o.0

I bought the books before I knew there was a spreadsheet project, or I would have bought the ebook. Since the spreadsheets exist it seems the most logical choice now would be to buy the CD ebook, because it actually contains audio files for all the sentences too, that way you get the best of both worlds, and you aren't just getting the book so it can sit on your self and collect dust. I'm going to get the ebook now anyway to get the audio files so I could have saved myself some money. I was gonna skip the ebook but since they updated it, it looks nice (though I'm a bit away from needing it at the moment.)

bodhisamaya Wrote:Though I do feel he misunderstands, as do most Catholic scholars, the difference between Nothingness (Nihilism) and the view of Emptiness (Interdependence) in relation to Buddhism.

Off-topic: Is the Shunyata or Kuu 空 in Buddhism similar to the concept of Fanaa in Sufism of Islam?

Fanaa is when the mystic becomes fully absorbed to the point of becoming unaware of himself or the objects around him. Every existing thing seems to vanish, and he feels free of every barrier that could stand in the way of his viewing the Remembered One.

In one of these states, Abu Yazid Al-Bistami, a famous mystic, cried out: "Praise to me, for my greatest glory!"

By the way, what is the meaning of 無? (linguistically and non-linguistcally!)

vosmiura Wrote:

Jeromin Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:But then all the people who check the book out will be using Heisig for free. Don't support libraries! It is stealing

Good point. Support public libraries and support copyright. A bit of a contradiction, right?"

Libraries and library users respect copyright, because they are not creating extra copies of the books - merely time-sharing the ones that they bought.

If I rent a movie, I am not allowed to show it publicly, which is also a form of time sharing. In fact, I'm not allowed to lend it either. Libraries precede modern copyright laws, but they go against the intention of these laws of charging for every use of intellectual property. So it is a contradiction, though not illegal as such.

vosmiura Wrote:To save time entering them into an SRS.

Why don't they use the examples in the CD? Is it because the kanji and kana is in image form .gif? I don't think there is a big difference. If they choose the examples in the CD they can produce an Anki deck contains all the examples in the CD (3104 sentence excatly) in few minutes !!

ahibba Wrote:Off-topic: Is the Shunyata or Kuu 空 in Buddhism similar to the concept of Fanaa in Sufism of Islam?

Fanaa is when the mystic becomes fully absorbed to the point of becoming unaware of himself or the objects around him. Every existing thing seems to vanish, and he feels free of every barrier that could stand in the way of his viewing the Remembered One.

In one of these states, Abu Yazid Al-Bistami, a famous mystic, cried out: "Praise to me, for my greatest glory!"

By the way, what is the meaning of 無? (linguistically and non-linguistcally!)

I don't have an intuitive understanding of shunyata that comes from prolonged meditation on it's true meaning. The superficial explanation I understand is that Shunyata is turning away from ATTACHMENT to the impermanent objects of samsara (cyclic existence) due to their impermanent and ultimately unsatisfactory nature.
Buddhism is the development of awareness so any meditation that promotes unawareness would be counterproductive.
Nothingness is the idea that things don't exist (Not sure if the kanji 無 actually means Nothingness or Emptiness in the Buddhist sense). So there ultimately is no point to any endeavor if one follows this view. Things do exist (in the Buddhist view) but not in the way we think they do as interpreted by our senses.

ahibba Wrote:

vosmiura Wrote:To save time entering them into an SRS.

Why don't they use the examples in the CD? Is it because the kanji and kana is in image form .gif? I don't think there is a big difference. If they choose the examples in the CD they can produce an Anki deck contains all the examples in the CD (3104 sentence excatly) in few minutes !!

Well I know many people who have done it in 2 seconds!! =] Perhaps they already own the book, perhaps the CD wasn't available then, perhaps they wanted to have the sentences in text so that they could edit them in their SRS... Who knows. But since they have already invested the time, do you think informing them that they could now (maybe) do it your better way is particularly helpful?

Sincerely,
Self-appointed KO Group representative and supporter (??)

ahibba Wrote:

vosmiura Wrote:To save time entering them into an SRS.

Why don't they use the examples in the CD? Is it because the kanji and kana is in image form .gif? I don't think there is a big difference. If they choose the examples in the CD they can produce an Anki deck contains all the examples in the CD (3104 sentence excatly) in few minutes !!

Well, various reasons for having them in text form rather than images, for example for looking up words in an online dictionary, and for reviewing with Anki's online interface, phone interface, or iAnki.

Jeromin Wrote:

vosmiura Wrote:

Jeromin Wrote:Good point. Support public libraries and support copyright. A bit of a contradiction, right?"

Libraries and library users respect copyright, because they are not creating extra copies of the books - merely time-sharing the ones that they bought.

If I rent a movie, I am not allowed to show it publicly, which is also a form of time sharing. In fact, I'm not allowed to lend it either. Libraries precede modern copyright laws, but they go against the intention of these laws of charging for every use of intellectual property. So it is a contradiction, though not illegal as such.

I didn't know you're not allowed to lend movies. Or is that only for rented movies? I thought you can lend or sell movies second hand, but you're not allowed to rent them out commercially without a special license. Ofcourse there are many publishers who would love to ban second hand sales.