持てる here is a different word, not 持っている

Tangorin Wrote:もてる 【持てる】
ichidan verb → conjugation / intransitive:
1. to be able to possess (hold, get, etc.) → 持つ
2. to be well liked;  to be popular;  to be pampered (spoiled, doted upon, etc.);  to be welcomed; → モテる
3. to endure (the tests of time, the elements, etc.);  to last
pre-noun adjectival:
4. possessed
彼はもてる物すべてを失った。 He lost everything he owned.
5. possessing riches;  having wealth

HTH

klloud Wrote:Can somebody tell me how these two sentences are different?

自分の店を持つために、貯金しています。

自分の店が持てるように、貯金しています。

This is the explanation I found on the Minna no Nihongo textbook:

http://i.imgur.com/5wG7eIW.png

I think what MnN is trying to say is that the first one sounds more like a firm goal, whereas the second sounds less certain about the eventual outcome.

yudantaiteki Wrote:

klloud Wrote:Can somebody tell me how these two sentences are different?

自分の店を持つために、貯金しています。

自分の店が持てるように、貯金しています。

This is the explanation I found on the Minna no Nihongo textbook:

http://i.imgur.com/5wG7eIW.png

I think what MnN is trying to say is that the first one sounds more like a firm goal, whereas the second sounds less certain about the eventual outcome.

I read the MnN explanation and quite honestly, it's complete gibberish. Their "explanation" sheds zero light on what the difference might be, if any.

I agree -- maybe with the cut-off explanation above the sentences it makes more sense, but as it stands unless you already know what the difference is, you can't untangle what they're saying.

I guess it's "saving for the purpose of having a shop" (i.e. when I've got enough, I'm going to buy it) vs "saving in a manner that would enable having a shop" (i.e. when I've got enough, I'll have the option of buying it).

Thank you so much for the help!

That is the rest of the explanation: http://i.imgur.com/Hj8tUss.png

Sometimes I feel like MNN explanations are not very good. I try to complement it with other resources, such as the Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar.

anotherjohn Wrote:I guess it's "saving for the purpose of having a shop" (i.e. when I've got enough, I'm going to buy it) vs "saving in a manner that would enable having a shop" (i.e. when I've got enough, I'll have the option of buying it).

Ummmmm......nah. This distinction is still kind of meaningless.

john555 Wrote:

anotherjohn Wrote:I guess it's "saving for the purpose of having a shop" (i.e. when I've got enough, I'm going to buy it) vs "saving in a manner that would enable having a shop" (i.e. when I've got enough, I'll have the option of buying it).

Ummmmm......nah. This distinction is still kind of meaningless.

That seems a big difference to me.

These phrases in a manga I'm reading:

してこよっと
まらな
よこさんか in その海ガメオレさまによこさんか
くりゃ in もってくりゃ

learningkanji Wrote:These phrases in a manga I'm reading:

してこよっと
まらな
よこさんか in その海ガメオレさまによこさんか
くりゃ in もってくりゃ

Please include the full context. The third one is よこす (hand over) in the negative, and the third is probably a contraction of くれば (if you bring it).

してこよっと should be してこよう plus the quotative と, but exactly what this means depends on the context.

I have no idea about まらな.

what does なんたってmean? The sentence is:

なんたってそれならおいらもお前もハッピーだもんな

I'm guessing it means something like, "so like". an interjection with no real meaning on its own. Sort of like softening the sentence I guess?

For まらな, he says へっへっへ。。。いいものもってるじゃねえん。。。then in the next panel he says おう‼︎まらな

Are you sure that's not ほらな? That would mean "See!?"

Three sentences:

1.
"感じた風の数を跳び..."

"感じた風の数" appears to be "The number of [different] winds that are felt."
I don't know what 跳ぶ's doing there, though -- I think this is *maybe* saying something like "The number of winds increased [jumped in number]", although I feel like 跳ぶ could be describing the motion of the winds here, too.

(Contextually, the sentence before this was talking about the number of directional winds that could be felt from a given location, so I think my interpretation of that noun phrase is accurate).

2.
"感じるとは, そんなこと..."

Not sure about this one at all -- previous sentence was "The answer is in your mind." I feel like this might be meaning "It's something you have to feel."

3.
This one's from goo.ne's dictionary, so I have a translation, but I'm having a hard time breaking down the original sentence.
"そんなにいい仕事をやめたなんて何か感じるところでもあったのですか/Did you have some special reason of your own for giving up such a good job?"

Assumptions/guesses:
そんなにいい仕事 - Such a good job.
そんなにいい仕事をやめたなんて- Give up SUCH a good job.

Completely lost after this -- WWWJDIC is glossing this as 何か / 感じる / ところで / も / あった, although that's not making sense to me with the definition of ところで I'm getting.

Also unclear on あったのですか -- I see this translated as "What happened?" for 何があったの, but I'm not clear what the general meaning is -- is it just asking if the preceding sentence portion happened?

Thanks!

There's a part of the book Kiki's Delivery Service where Kiki notices a woman waving in the distance. Then it says, 「せわしなくおいでおいでをして、どうもキキにむかってふっているようにみえるのでした」.

The meaning of the sentence is pretty obvious, but I'm wondering about the word せわしなく. When I looked it up, it redirected me in one dictionary to せわしい. So せわしい and せわしなく seem to have similar meanings! Then a j->j dictionary says: せわしなく: (「ない」は甚だしいの意) 忙しい。落ち付かない。せわしい。

What's going on with this ない here? Is the same ない found in some other words?

It is just まらな

Also some other ones:

めんばくない

け in これをちゃうけ

ええもん in いやーしかしええもんみせてもろた

Tzadeck Wrote:There's a part of the book Kiki's Delivery Service where Kiki notices a woman waving in the distance. Then it says, 「せわしなくおいでおいでをして、どうもキキにむかってふっているようにみえるのでした」.

The meaning of the sentence is pretty obvious, but I'm wondering about the word せわしなく. When I looked it up, it redirected me in one dictionary to せわしい. So せわしい and せわしなく seem to have similar meanings! Then a j->j dictionary says: せわしなく: (「ない」は甚だしいの意) 忙しい。落ち付かない。せわしい。

What's going on with this ない here? Is the same ない found in some other words?

切ない、あどけない to name a few that I know of. Someone can correct me on this if I'm wrong but I'm guessing most adjectives ending in ない have that root. Like いとけない and maybe きたない etc.

Tzadeck Wrote:Then a j->j dictionary says: せわしなく: (「ない」は甚だしいの意) 忙しい。落ち付かない。せわしい。

Another dictionary says 〔「せわしい」の語幹に形容詞をつくる接尾語「ない」の付いた形〕. 広辞苑:

な・い

接尾
(形容詞型活用)な・し(ク活用型)
性質・状態を表す語に添えて、その意味を強め、形容詞をつくる。「甚だしい」の意。「うしろめた―・し」「苛いら―・し」「切―・い」「はした―・い」「せわし―・い」

(The first two examples probably don't exist in the modern language)

learningkanji: ええ is いい, never seen the others (context?)

learningkanji Wrote:It is just まらな

Also some other ones:

めんばくない

け in これをちゃうけ

ええもん in いやーしかしええもんみせてもろた

This kind of makes me think that the above phrase in question really was "ほらな" and not "まらな" because I'm willing to bet this "めんばくない" is actually "めんぼくない." That OR the print is correct and this is just a ridiculously accented character. Manga does that sometimes.

As for け, I'm willing to bet it's the kind of rhetorical question け... and ちゃう is probably Kansai-ben, but without context that phrase makes absolutely no sense. More context!

As Vempele said, ええ is いい (kansai-ben again) and もん is just もの (also used often in kansai).
もろた is also kansai-ben (もらった → もろた)

moejam Wrote:what does なんたってmean? The sentence is:
なんたってそれならおいらもお前もハッピーだもんな
I'm guessing it means something like, "so like". an interjection with no real meaning on its own. Sort of like softening the sentence I guess?

In rikaichan なんたって is listed as "no matter what, whatever you say". I guess it's probably a contraction of 何　言った　and って topic.

@learning kanji
for ちゃう my dictionary gives 1: (Osaka dialect) No!; 2: isn't it?; wasn't it?; that could fit.

Thanks guys, that answered my question. I actually have the 広辞苑 but I didn't manage to find that ない entry at the time--very helpful. There's a lot of connections between words or phrases I see all the time--like adjectives ending in ない--and I usually just assume it's something from classical Japanese that I don't need to worry about, haha. But it can be good to get to the bottom of things.

EratiK Wrote:

moejam Wrote:what does なんたってmean? The sentence is:
なんたってそれならおいらもお前もハッピーだもんな
I'm guessing it means something like, "so like". an interjection with no real meaning on its own. Sort of like softening the sentence I guess?

In rikaichan なんたって is listed as "no matter what, whatever you say". I guess it's probably a contraction of 何　言った　and って topic.

Thanks!

Saginaim Wrote:Three sentences:

1.
"感じた風の数を跳び..."

"感じた風の数" appears to be "The number of [different] winds that are felt."
I don't know what 跳ぶ's doing there, though -- I think this is *maybe* saying something like "The number of winds increased [jumped in number]", although I feel like 跳ぶ could be describing the motion of the winds here, too.

(Contextually, the sentence before this was talking about the number of directional winds that could be felt from a given location, so I think my interpretation of that noun phrase is accurate).

2.
"感じるとは, そんなこと..."

Not sure about this one at all -- previous sentence was "The answer is in your mind." I feel like this might be meaning "It's something you have to feel."

3.
This one's from goo.ne's dictionary, so I have a translation, but I'm having a hard time breaking down the original sentence.
"そんなにいい仕事をやめたなんて何か感じるところでもあったのですか/Did you have some special reason of your own for giving up such a good job?"

Assumptions/guesses:
そんなにいい仕事 - Such a good job.
そんなにいい仕事をやめたなんて- Give up SUCH a good job.

Completely lost after this -- WWWJDIC is glossing this as 何か / 感じる / ところで / も / あった, although that's not making sense to me with the definition of ところで I'm getting.

Also unclear on あったのですか -- I see this translated as "What happened?" for 何があったの, but I'm not clear what the general meaning is -- is it just asking if the preceding sentence portion happened?

Thanks!

Think your correct on 1 , but need more context


About 2 , what is the sentence after that?


About 3 The glossing of the sentence is wrong, which probably trips you up.
The correct glossing is:
そんなに/ いい仕事 / 何か / 感じる / ところ/ で も / あった/ のです / か
You are right on the translation of "Give up SUCH a good job."
You can stick the 感じるところ together ( The usage of tokoro is this one http://www.jgram.org/pages/viewOne.php?tagE=tokoro )
The particle でも　is the same as in お茶でも飲みに行きませんか？　（Let's go drink tea( or water, or whatever you want)
So if you translate the whole sentence it would become something like:
Did you not feel ANYTHING (感じるところでも） after giving up SUCH a good job.

Hope you understood my crappy explanation haha ^^'

Saginaim Wrote:Three sentences:

1.
"感じた風の数を跳び..."

"感じた風の数" appears to be "The number of [different] winds that are felt."
I don't know what 跳ぶ's doing there, though -- I think this is *maybe* saying something like "The number of winds increased [jumped in number]", although I feel like 跳ぶ could be describing the motion of the winds here, too.

(Contextually, the sentence before this was talking about the number of directional winds that could be felt from a given location, so I think my interpretation of that noun phrase is accurate).

2.
"感じるとは, そんなこと..."

Not sure about this one at all -- previous sentence was "The answer is in your mind." I feel like this might be meaning "It's something you have to feel."

1. Because 数 is being connected to 跳ぶ by を、the thing being "jumped" is a number (数). What number? The number of winds you feel (感じた風の数). I have no idea what this is supposed to mean but there it is. What's "jumping"? Why are we feeling a certain number of winds? So many mysteries.


2. This sounds like the speaker probably advised someone to "feel," explained what they meant by that, then closed off the explanation with this phrase. Or something similar. Without context I can't be 100% sure, of course. In that context I'd translate it as "That's what (I) mean by "feel."

loonytik Wrote:So if you translate the whole sentence it would become something like:
Did you not feel ANYTHING (感じるところでも) after giving up SUCH a good job.'

No, he's asking about the reason for giving up the job. Green Goddess:

感じるところがあって職を辞した.　For personal reasons I have resigned my position.

(Also, your "not...anything" is wrong, there's no negation in the original, he's implying he thinks there was a 感じるところ that caused it).