nest0r Wrote:

FooSoft Wrote:Could someone explain the usage of こと in the following paragraph?

青豆は地図の道筋を辿るように、老婦人の筋肉をひとつひとつ指先で確かめていった。それぞれの筋肉の張り具合や、硬さや、反発の度合いを、青豆は細かく記憶していた。ピアニストが長い曲を暗譜してしまうのと同じだ。こと身体に関しては、そういう綿密な記憶力が青豆には具わっている。

Is this something like 身体のこと? I have no idea what purpose it serves in this sentence.

I found this: http://books.google.com/books?id=SszxbMt...22&f=false

Hey, cool thanks! What strange grammar. The examples match my sentence perfectly, so that must be it

Zon70 Wrote:I have a question, what does しっかり mean? I looked it up on rikaichan, but I just cant get the feeling that it means firmly, tightly, or reliable whenever I see it in context.

It might help if you gave us some examples of contexts where you have trouble with it. Otherwise we're just going to say "it means firmly, tightly or reliable" and you won't be any further forward...

Also, you should consider looking words up in a wider set of dictionaries than just rikaichan (including ones with example sentences). Online, WWWJDIC is useful because it has handy links to several other online dictionaries for each word you look up in it.

Sorry guys but once again here am I.
What does the "方" ("かた") in "質問のある方はどうぞ。" mean? I really didn't understand its meaning even after searching at jisho (wwwjdic is down atm). The translation I have for the whole sentence is "Please feel free to ask any questions.".
Please help me with this one Thanks.

Polite version of 人, basically.
"People who have questions, どうぞ, feel free (to ask them)"

Miguelitius Wrote:What does the "方" ("たか") in "質問のある方はどうぞ。" mean?

I'm guessing that's a typo, but just in case: it's "かた".

Yes it was a typo, sorry for that, thanks for the correction pm215 . Thank you very much then Asriel.

Miguelitius Wrote:Yes it was a typo, sorry for that, thanks for the correction pm215 . Thank you very much then Asriel.

You might be interested in this thread that goes into the grammar of that C2k sentence, also: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...5#pid78275

客：このお皿は結婚祝いのプレゼントにどうでしょうか。
店員：このお皿ならきっと相手の方も気に入って下さいますよ。
Customer: How would this plate be as a wedding present?
Salesperson: If it's this plate, I'm certain the person you give it to will be pleased with it as well.

Does this use of auxiliary 下さる literally mean: "If it's this plate, I'm certain the person you give it to will be pleased with it for you"? It is just that "気に入る" seemed like a strange verb (expression) to be used with this auxiliary, so I want to confirm if my idea is correct.

その彼らが日本で大成功して８年が経過しようとしている。

What's ～ようとする doing here?

fakewookie Wrote:その彼らが日本で大成功して８年が経過しようとしている。

What's ～ようとする doing here?

I believe it's volitional (しよう） + と + して + いる

Here's an example and explanation, from: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e...eclensions

“In the form しようとする shiyō to suru: be about to or be trying to. 犬が吠えようとしている Inu ga hoeyō to shite iru: ‘The dog is about to bark.’”

vinniram Wrote:客：このお皿は結婚祝いのプレゼントにどうでしょうか。
店員：このお皿ならきっと相手の方も気に入って下さいますよ。
Customer: How would this plate be as a wedding present?
Salesperson: If it's this plate, I'm certain the person you give it to will be pleased with it as well.

Does this use of auxiliary 下さる literally mean: "If it's this plate, I'm certain the person you give it to will be pleased with it for you"? It is just that "気に入る" seemed like a strange verb (expression) to be used with this auxiliary, so I want to confirm if my idea is correct.

て下さる is described on p. 249 of Japanese the Manga Way: http://books.google.com/books?id=xaXukH7...ru&f=false

I found this, from jref: "Ki ni itte kureru to iin dakedo." (It will be good if you do me the favor of appreciating it).

Read the previous pages (p. 248, etc.) in Lesson 31 to get a better feel of giving/receiving words.

Thanks for that nestor.

長野に来るにはJR線で来る方法と車で来る方法とがあります。
If you're coming to Nagano, there's (lit. the method of) Japan Railways, and there's (lit. the method of) car.

With this sentence, I'm not sure about the に particle highlighted. It shouldn't be に of location because "長野に来る" isn't a location. But then, the whole sentence is of the overall structure "XにはYがある", which is typical of the locational に particle. Is this some case where a sentence itself "長野に来る" is being used like a location? But then, shouldn't it take a nominalizer? I suppose it can't take の nominalizer because "の に" isn't allowed, but then shouldn't it at least take こと nominalizer?
My second idea was that it is に of point in time, but then, this に is only used with nouns of time (according to DOBJG), so I am thinking this is not a correct explanation.

Thanks for any hints/tips etc.

verb (or noun)には〜 is a special grammar point. You'll come across things where it'll have
verb+には[requirement]が必要だ。
Or something. For one reason or another, I feel like it's often used for requirements..

Here, if you have Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar, it's on page 289.
"a conjunction/compound particle to indicate a purpose for doing s.t.
to; in order to; for; for the purpose of~"

豊かな生活を送るには健康が第一だ
In order to lead a rich live, health should be your main concern.

I didn't read the whole thing, but 〜のには would mean the same thing. I like the "for; in order to" thing, it makes sense to me.

S in your case, it's kind of like "For coming to Nagano, there are the ways of coming by JR or by car."
See how the "for" fits in? It's like that.

thanks for directing me to that, Asriel.

Asriel Wrote:verb (or noun)には〜 is a special grammar point. You'll come across things where it'll have
verb+には[requirement]が必要だ。
Or something. For one reason or another, I feel like it's often used for requirements..

Here, if you have Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar, it's on page 289.
"a conjunction/compound particle to indicate a purpose for doing s.t.
to; in order to; for; for the purpose of~"

豊かな生活を送るには健康が第一だ
In order to lead a rich live, health should be your main concern.

I didn't read the whole thing, but 〜のには would mean the same thing. I like the "for; in order to" thing, it makes sense to me.

S in your case, it's kind of like "For coming to Nagano, there are the ways of coming by JR or by car."
See how the "for" fits in? It's like that.

O-oh yeah?? Well, you can also use just に to reference 'purpose'! See page 92 of JMW or に(5) on p. 297 of DOBJG! In your face.

Edict: には　(prt) "in order to"

I win. ;-)

I don't know about JMW, but DOBJG's page 297 is a different usage of に....
That's the 買いに行くversion, where its stem+verb.
This is more like...adding more information about the verb itself. Plus the construction is different.

served back in yours...?
and since when did the word/phrase thread become competitive?

edit: bows to Thora's elite greatness. Sometimes rikaichan is all you need.

Asriel Wrote:I don't know about JMW, but DOBJG's page 297 is a different usage of に....
That's the 買いに行くversion, where its stem+verb.
This is more like...adding more information about the verb itself. Plus the construction is different.

served back in yours...?
and since when did the word/phrase thread become competitive?

edit: bows to Thora's elite greatness. Sometimes rikaichan is all you need.

hehe I was kidding, but that に(5), which the entry in DOIJG you pointed out states and references, means the same thing, it's just has different requirements (motion verbs and whatnot). I believe it's example 1a in the DOIJG entry's notes.

Nah, Rikaichan usually won't do. It's great that people (especially Nest0r recently) link/refer to various resources. Folks starting out might be interested to know various possible places and ways to look for answers.

([Edit: Not the same situation, but] I'm reminded of the time pm215 and I were dutifully answering IceCream's questions by typing in DoBJG examples and paraphrasing the entries the way she likes. Then the lovely Lady IceCream casually mentioned that she has the books, but simply doesn't enjoy looking things up in them!) lol

A sentence from this article:

http://www.tv-asahi.co.jp/ann/news/web/h...03003.html

"約2時間後に鎮火しましたが、住宅やアパート、空き家など少なくとも9棟が全焼したとみられます。"

I have an extremely hard time with passive forms, which this seems to have at the end (みられます）. With some ALC help it maybe comes out to "expected" but I don't know... I feel like I'm never going to understand passive form. I can't figure it out in my brain, you know?

Anyway, I have the sentence so far as...

"After about 2 hours it [the fire] was extinguished, but for the residence and apartments, it is expected that at least 9 vacant houses have burnt down."

As you can tell, I have a bit of trouble translating. I'm not pro, of course. When I hit something like 住宅やアパート it drives me crazy. I wonder how I word it and such.

This is a news article I have been working on today, and I hope after a few I'll increase in speed and be able to do a handful per day. Because I have not been working on any news stuff (just subs2srs) I have a lot of vocabulary coming in and I have my notepad program open and am putting it in there. I'd put it in Anki, but I don't want to do reps now, I may transfer it later. So if you can help me with みられます and any new ways of looking at passive form, it'd be appreciated! Thanks. I may be coming back here a lot now that for the first time in 1 and a half years I am going to actually put effort into studying.

Sorry for the long post... I'll stop.

hehe thanks for the (heated) help everyone! it seems for any particular grammatical point, there's always quite a few different interpretations, explanations etc. that's why I tend to stick to the one resource, so as to minimize contradictory explanations (which still come up between DOJG and my textbook, and it's quite annoying )

vinniram Wrote:hehe thanks for the (heated) help everyone! it seems for any particular grammatical point, there's always quite a few different interpretations, explanations etc. that's why I tend to stick to the one resource, so as to minimize contradictory explanations (which still come up between DOJG and my textbook, and it's quite annoying )

For the record, I was joking. In case your use of “heated” was not a joke. ^_- The textual stutter (“O-oh yeah?”) was meant to indicate simulated emotion that, in being a simulation of emotion overwhelming articulation as per its occurrence in spoken discourse, was purposefully light-hearted. Given the context of my answering a question and then Asriel answering the same person, it was meant to evoke a humourous atmosphere of competitiveness for no apparent reason, whereupon I desperately seized on a tangential point in order to one-up Asriel, that of に also being able to reference ‘purpose’ i.e. ‘in order to’; it was not meant to directly apply to your sentence. The details of its application were in the pages referenced.

nest0r Wrote:

fakewookie Wrote:その彼らが日本で大成功して８年が経過しようとしている。

What's ～ようとする doing here?

I believe it's volitional (しよう） + と + して + いる

Here's an example and explanation, from: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e...eclensions

“In the form しようとする shiyō to suru: be about to or be trying to. 犬が吠えようとしている Inu ga hoeyō to shite iru: ‘The dog is about to bark.’”

Wasn't aware of it also having the meaning of "be about to", thanks.

I've got a couple of new questions (as always):

「誰が勝てそうにないか、だいたい予測はつきますが」
Does this mean "unlikely to win" or "show no signs of winning"? I thought this kind of そう only came after v.masu, but I guess it works after て form too?

しかし天吾は一定の距離を置いて小松とつきあうように心がけていた。あまり近づきすぎて、下手に深入りしたところで足元の梯子を外されたりしたら、たまったものではない。
Any idea what たまったものではない means here? I can't figure out what verb comes before もの here, none of the possible definitions make any sense here. Looks like a set expression of some kind.

小松は自分自身に、用心深くいくつかの保険をかけていた。たとえば彼はある新聞の夕刊に週に一度文芸関係のコラムを書いていた。そこでいろんな作家を褒めたり貶したりした。財すときの文章はかなり苛烈なものだった。そういう文章を書くのが彼は得意だった。匿名のコラムだが、業界の人間はみんな誰がそれを書いているのかを知っていた。当然の話だが、新聞に悪口を書かれることを好む人間はまずいない。だから作家たちは小松とはできるだけ事を構えないように注意していた。雑誌に執筆を依頼されれば、できるだけ断らないようにした。少なくとも何度かに一度は引き受けた。そうしないとコラムで何を書かれるかわかったものではない。

My attempt at translating this, really shaky on it:
"That's why the novelists were as careful as possible not to meddle in in Komatsu's work. If they left writing the column to him, he did his best so that they would not get rejected. At the very least he did this a couple of times (this probably very wrong). If he didn't do this, he wouldn't know what's written in the column.

FooSoft Wrote:I've got a couple of new questions (as always):

「誰が勝てそうにないか、だいたい予測はつきますが」
Does this mean "unlikely to win" or "show no signs of winning"? I thought this kind of そう only came after v.masu, but I guess it works after て form too?[/color]

This is the stem of the potential form (勝てる) of 勝つ. て form is 勝って.

勝てそうにない = very unlikely to win