Hello everyone. I have a question about でも

僕たちでも難しいんです。

Just for context this sentence was uttered as an explanation about how a certain test was hard even for them (teachers) so it would be really hard for a student.

anyway, I basically get what the sentence means, but I would like to know what でもmeans precisly. I guess if you could provide me with other example sentences so I can see how it works I would be grateful.

In short, how are these two sentences different.

僕たちも難しいんです。

僕たちでも難しいんです。

@yudantaiteki:
So would use say that the て is the って quotation marker in that sentence? I haven't seen it used like that.

@bizarrojosh
In that particular case, 僕たちでも means "even for us". It's て-form of です + も (even). So the sentence means "Even for us, [that] is difficult." Another example of this would be 猿でも出来る宿題 - homework that even monkeys can do.

Your second second means "We are also difficult".

thanks foo! I guess I need to look more into the て form of です to really get a good understanding of it!

FooSoft Wrote:@yudantaiteki:
So would use say that the て is the って quotation marker in that sentence? I haven't seen it used like that.

Yeah, I guess it's the quotation marker -- って is sometimes used to set up topics in casual speech, particularly as ってさ.

One of these days I'm gonna read this thread from top to bottom, my knowledge will quadruple and then I'm probably gonna explode... but it will be worth it

I saw this in a manga today and I have no clue what it is :p

「ハドゥカティ!!」

The context it appeared in was that the person was thinking of something he said which was embarrassing or ashamed of. Having difficulties figuring it out or finding any definition via google.... so would be happy if someone could enlighten me

@john
ハドゥカティ is going to be a corruption (in order to be cute, or perhaps convey that they can't speak right because they are embarrassed.) never seen it actually used seriously in real life, but when joking around with friends and such, I've heard a bunch of corruptions. はじゅかちい、だいちゅき、etc... Keep in mind that ドゥ is going to be like "du" as in "do your studies" and not "do" as in "donuts."

ok took me ages to figure out it was はずかしい :p ... i was pronouncing ドゥ incorrectly as どう anyways. thanks asriel.

FooSoft Wrote:In that particular case, 僕たちでも means "even for us". It's て-form of です + も (even).

The て-form of です is でして.
This で comes from だ.

我々は延々と同じ時間をループしているのです。

thurd Wrote:One of these days I'm gonna read this thread from top to bottom, my knowledge will quadruple and then I'm probably gonna explode... but it will be worth it

I just started reading from page 1 by accident and thought then same thing! Maybe someone should turn it into a book...

Offtopic, but will someone host the code here at their personal site?
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid104690

Back on topic
だれがあんな口うるさい・・・
What is meant by 口うるさい? I think it means "loudmouth" but that definition is not in EDICT...Does this mean loudmouth? How do you say loudmouth in Japanese?

Maybe a better idea is an Anki deck or a spreadsheet with "items" discussed in this thread.

I was working on this deck and came across a question about someone else's question. The item on page 1 says と is used with 信じる. I thought しんじる takes the DO (direct object, を) particle. I found examples of both on Tatoeba. I'm confused.
キリスト教信者は、一人の神が存在し、イエスキリストは神の子であると信じている。
彼の話を信じる者もいたし、信じない者もいた。

jcdietz03 Wrote:だれがあんな口うるさい・・・
What is meant by 口うるさい? I think it means "loudmouth" but that definition is not in EDICT...

Well, GG5, 大辞泉, 明鏡 and Progressive all agree with EDICT that it's basically 'nagging' or 'carping', and you haven't given any kind of context that would make that not fit...

Quote:The item on page 1 says と is used with 信じる. I thought しんじる takes the DO (direct object, を) particle. I found examples of both on Tatoeba. I'm confused.
キリスト教信者は、一人の神が存在し、イエスキリストは神の子であると信じている。
彼の話を信じる者もいたし、信じない者もいた。

You're right that both are possible. と is the quotative particle and marks some statement of what is being believed ("that Jesus is the son of God"), in the same way you would use と with verbs like 思う. を marks some noun phrase which is some thing you believe in ("his story"). It can't directly connect to a sentence-like bit of grammar unless you put in a nominaliser like アトランティス文明があったことを信じますか.

口うるさい （=口やかましい） seems limited to nagging meaning.

But うるさい alone is a very common word with a broader range of meanings (including some of loudmouth's several meanings)
1. noisy; too loud 2. annoying, troublesome
3. persistent, bothersome; pest 4. talkative; 口やかましい

From goo dictionary site:
loudmouth ほら吹き；大声でしゃべりまくる人
loudmouthed 声の大きな；やかましい, 騒々しい；おしゃべりな；ばかな［下品な］話をする

More from Kenkyusha re loudmouth:
声が騒々しい　 blatant; loudmouthed
下品に騒々しいものの言い方 a blatant manner of speaking [offensive]
うるさい (blatant)
がさつく 〔言動が粗野だ〕 be boorish; loudmouthed 　がさついた奴　

So I suppose it depends what you mean by loudmouth.　[loud, blabbermouth, obnoxious, etc.] Best to pick up vocab in context, though, if you want to sound normal. :-) Not sure how common, current or appropriate words like ほら吹き or がさつく are.

Here are some non-Edict online dictionaries. (Some might overlap, I'm too lazy to check which dictionaries they use.)
* http://www.sanseido.net/
* http://www.excite.co.jp/dictionary/
* http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/
* http://dic.yahoo.co.jp
* http://zokugo-dict.com (slang)

Can somebody please explain the difference between ～終わる　and ～上がる.
I remember learning it a while ago, but I can't find my notes anymore and I got it all wrong in a self-test.

Example:
頼んでおいた洋服がし( )。

1 終わった
2 終えた
3 上がった
4 上げた

(correct is 3)

thanks a lot in advance!

Not sure if this is an unreasonable question.
Can anyone direct me to a piece of resource where I can find all the different meanings for the particle ば and where it is used? I see it most commonly in なれば and たらば
Thank you

@cosign

It's a common conditional conjugation. See http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/gra...nditionals .

Adding something more to my last question, although unrelated:

What's the difference between 払い込む and　払い出す?
My dictionary doesn't help me at all. Both seems to mean basically "pay", that's why I got the following wrong:

今月の家賃を払い(____)。

1　受けた
2　込んだ
3　すんだ
4　出した

(2 is correct / why is 4 wrong?)

@chochajin

I think that 払い込む is like "paying in" and 払い出す is to "pay out" when you consider the auxiliary verbs. So it's like you would pay out to your employees, but pay into a loan, rent, etc.

The ば particle goes after なら and たら to mean 'if'

But my problem is, it occurs in other instances as well that doesn't mean if.
太刀も帯びておれば、弓矢も携えておりました。

"He was wearing a sword, but he had a bow and arrow too."

much thanks.

Cosign Wrote:The ば particle goes after なら and たら to mean 'if'

But my problem is, it occurs in other instances as well that doesn't mean if.
太刀も帯びておれば、弓矢も携えておりました。

"He was wearing a sword, but he had a bow and arrow too."

Yes, these little bits of grammar have a 'basic' meaning and also turn up in larger constructions with idiomatic uses. 日本語文型事典 has ten pages under the heading ば including about half a column on this も...ば...も construction and then cross-references to another 17 entries elsewhere in the book which use ば forms. It also has a handy index at the back which sorts entries by the form they end in (so under たら you find さえ...たら、ときたら、もしかしたら and so on.) So I think that would be my recommendation if you want to look through a comprehensive list.

Cosign Wrote:The ば particle goes after なら and たら to mean 'if'

The ば particle goes after verbals in hypothetical form 仮定形 (だ and た included).

食べる → 食べれば
食べた → 食べたらば
食べるのだ → 食べるのならば

Cosign Wrote:Can anyone direct me to a piece of resource where I can find all the different meanings for the particle ば and where it is used?

pm215's suggestion is great; but you can also check a regular monolingual online dictionary. Eg, 大辞林.

chochajin Wrote:Can somebody please explain the difference between ～終わる　and ～上がる.
I remember learning it a while ago, but I can't find my notes anymore and I got it all wrong in a self-test.

Example:
頼んでおいた洋服がし( )。

1 終わった
2 終えた
3 上がった
4 上げた

(correct is 3)

thanks a lot in advance!

何をすればいいかわかっていることほど楽なものはない

Does that mean "Nothings as easy as knowing what to do" or "It's never easy knowing what to do"?

the ことほど楽なものはない turns up lots of results on google... but I don't quite understand it.

chochajin Wrote:

chochajin Wrote:Can somebody please explain the difference between ～終わる　and ～上がる.
I remember learning it a while ago, but I can't find my notes anymore and I got it all wrong in a self-test.

Example:
頼んでおいた洋服がし( )。

1 終わった
2 終えた
3 上がった
4 上げた

(correct is 3)

thanks a lot in advance!

Sorry I can't answer your question, but wondered where you are getting these questions from??

chochajin Wrote:Can somebody please explain the difference between ～終わる　and ～上がる.

Example:
頼んでおいた洋服がし( )。

1 終わった
2 終えた
3 上がった
4 上げた

I was hoping somebody else would have a go at this, but failing that here's my guess. Firstly, しあがる is its own word (in the sense of having a dictionary entry) meaning that the subject noun is completed or done. しおわる is just する plus the usual Vmasu+おわる grammar, indicating that the action described by the verb has been done. So it only works if you could have grammatically said ...した instead. Since 洋服がした doesn't make sense it can't be しおわる. Also DBJG says that 終える is also OK (in written language) so if both are a choice neither can be right :-)