-kiki- Wrote:Thank you so much for inviting me to this site, magamo.
Welcome to RevTK! I've been waiting for you!
-kiki- Wrote:FooSoft Wrote:杏：「それでもあんたよか早く着くと思ったんだけどなぁ」
岡崎：「歩いてきてる奴とそう変わらない時間ってのはバイクが泣く」
Kyou: Nevertheless, I thought I would arrive faster than you.
Okazaki: Your bike is crying because a person on foot got here the same time you did.
You translated both of them perfectly.
Just to explain the meaning a bit further, それでも in the first sentence can modify either "思った" or "早く着く." From the context, I think she probably meant "I thought I'd still arrive earlier than you," i.e., 早く着く is being modified.
As for the second line, 〜が泣く is an idiomatic phrase often used when someone is not taking full advantage of a very good thing/situation or is disgracing someone or something. So it means that the thing or situation deserves much more, that it's a disgrace to it or something along those lines. For example, if you own a real guitar but don't play it because you're too lazy to learn a musical instrument, your friend might say 部屋に飾ってあるだけだなんて、ギターが泣く. Another example is when a person who has a Ph.D. in Japanese speaks atrocious Japanese and failed to communicate with native speakers. A degree is considered a sign of his academic excellence, so it's a situation where 博士号が泣く. In your example, he means something along the line of "It took about the same time to get here, huh? Your bike deserves a better owner."
-kiki- Wrote:FooSoft Wrote:Is よか like より? I can't find anything about it. It seems to make sense from context though.
You're right. よか is short for よりかは. よか had been heard often, but these days we prefer using よりは instead.
Ah, it's interesting to hear what other native speakers think of the same phrase. Here's my explanation:
Technically it's an informal version of よりか, which is a combination of より+か. The か adds an informal nuance, and the shorter version is even more informal and used mainly in spoken language. As is the case with many other particles, you can attach は to give a stronger comparative sense. Also, よかは is ok but is much rarer than よりかは and よりは. I think it's considered wrong in standardized tests.
Xより早く着くと思った -> neutral,
Xよりか早く着くと思った -> informal and spoken language,
Xよか早く着くと思った -> more informal and definitely spoken (You might want to avoid this in standardized tests).
Xよりは早く着くと思った -> neutral. The speaker thought some people might arrive earlier than her, but she didn't think X would.
The meanings of the よりかは and よかは versions are obvious.
@-kiki-
RevTKに来てくれたんですね。ありがとう。
母語話者の意見は貴重ですし、他の人が同じ表現をどう捉えるかを聞くのはとても興味深いです。
母国語の文法というのは普段意識しないので、日本語を説明するというのはとても難しいことですが
言語というものをより深く理解する助けにもなりますし、やってみると意外と楽しいですよね。
言葉に関係ない話題でも母語話者と話すことは学習者にとってとても大切なことですし
日本人メンバーが増えてとても嬉しいです。
それではこちらでも、またLLTAでもよろしくお願いします。
I'm glad to see you here, -kiki-!
Explanations and input from a native speaker's point of view are always valuable and helpful. It's very interesting to me too to hear what other native speakers think of the exact same expressions in Japanese.
Since grammar of our native languages is below our conscious awareness, it's quite difficult to give explanations, especially when they want us to do it in a foreign language. But it's really fun and definitely helps understand how language works at a deeper level.
Oh, and talking about random stuff with native speakers helps learners in many ways too. (This also means you can learn a lot from members of RevTK here!)
@gyuujuice
A versatile translation of "Just because X doesn't mean Y" is Xからといって必ずしもYというわけではない. For example, if you want to say, "Just because you don't know the reason, doesn't mean there isn't one!" and don't care if it's natural or idiomatic, あなたが理由を知らないからといって、必ずしも理由がないというわけではない makes sense. Of course, if you want to make your Japanese sound more natural and idiomatic, you need to translate a sentence on a case-by-case basis. For example, one of idiomatic translations of your example is お前に理由がわからないからって、それが何だってんだよ！, though it may not work depending on context.
Edited: 2010-05-01, 5:47 pm
