Sorry I wrongly typed.

"周囲の運命*力*を湾曲させ 服用したやつを意図せず萌えに向かわせる。　よってそいつの行動は萌えるものとなる"

psyblade Wrote:"周囲の運命力を湾曲させ 服用したやつを意図せず萌えに向かわせる。　よってそいつの行動は萌えるものとなる"

I understand it as: "It curves the power of fate (of people?) around, make the person who drinks it unintentionally direct to "cuteness - moe". Thanks to that, behaviours of the one who drinks it will become "cute - moe"".

Do I get it correctly?
Also, if I understand it correctly, I think the part "it curves the power of fate around" is quite nonsense. Or because I can't get the meaning of 運命力

I had to make sure.

Yeah I think you get it quite right: the power of fate is something implied to be unmovable, but the "curving" is like "bending to one's will", inflecting, influencing. Since fate is something dynamic, with a direction, with for example doom as a destination (it's a random example), here it is rerouted to have moe instead of doom. Because moe is more or less an innate quality (like being a klutz) you can't learn or unlearn it, so it's logical that a way of acquiring it is by modifying fate. Though your "unintentionnally" is somewhat misplaced: I think it's "unintentionnally moe" (natural, spontaneous).

I have another question, this time it's more about interpretation than it is about grammar I guess, anyway the lines are from an anime scene where a boy goes to the hospital to visit the girl he loves, this is what she says to him:

(あなたって本当に変な人。病院にお見舞いに来たのにずっと黙り込んでいるんですもの。)
あたしと心中しない？

I'm curious about the last line, I didn't know the meaning of 心中 so I looked it up and found that it means double suicide, is the girl actually suggesting that? I'm asking this because I also looked at one of those fan translations, since it seemed a bit out of character, and it was translated as: "Will you come with me to find out how it ends?".

Yeah, that's how I understood it (double suicide).

http://j-anime-love.info/4gtkmus/4gatsu16wa/
I searched the line on google and it came up with this site discussing the episode in Japanese and lots of speculation about that line in particular (where it might have come from, what she's thinking, how serious she is...)

Kuroro Wrote:I have another question, this time it's more about interpretation than it is about grammar I guess, anyway the lines are from an anime scene where a boy goes to the hospital to visit the girl he loves, this is what she says to him:

(あなたって本当に変な人。病院にお見舞いに来たのにずっと黙り込んでいるんですもの。)
あたしと心中しない？

I'm curious about the last line, I didn't know the meaning of 心中 so I looked it up and found that it means double suicide, is the girl actually suggesting that? I'm asking this because I also looked at one of those fan translations, since it seemed a bit out of character, and it was translated as: "Will you come with me to find out how it ends?".

I got this from a J-J dict
心中: "相愛の男女が合意の上で一緒に自殺すること"
Man and woman who love each other decide to die together.

She is disappointed and suggests that because he just stays silent all the time.

Kuroro Wrote:I have another question, this time it's more about interpretation than it is about grammar I guess, anyway the lines are from an anime scene where a boy goes to the hospital to visit the girl he loves, this is what she says to him:

(あなたって本当に変な人。病院にお見舞いに来たのにずっと黙り込んでいるんですもの。)
あたしと心中しない？

I think I remember this line (四月は君の嘘, right?). For me it's indeed about double suicide (a thing that cursed soulmates do), call it a black humour love confession, it's coherent with the hospital context and all.

EratiK Wrote:

psyblade Wrote:"周囲の運命力を湾曲させ 服用したやつを意図せず萌えに向かわせる。　よってそいつの行動は萌えるものとなる"

I understand it as: "It curves the power of fate (of people?) around, make the person who drinks it unintentionally direct to "cuteness - moe". Thanks to that, behaviours of the one who drinks it will become "cute - moe"".

Do I get it correctly?
Also, if I understand it correctly, I think the part "it curves the power of fate around" is quite nonsense. Or because I can't get the meaning of 運命力

I had to make sure.

Yeah I think you get it quite right: the power of fate is something implied to be unmovable, but the "curving" is like "bending to one's will", inflecting, influencing. Since fate is something dynamic, with a direction, with for example doom as a destination (it's a random example), here it is rerouted to have moe instead of doom. Because moe is more or less an innate quality (like being a klutz) you can't learn or unlearn it, so it's logical that a way of acquiring it is by modifying fate. Though your "unintentionnally" is somewhat misplaced: I think it's "unintentionnally moe" (natural, spontaneous).

I'm confused, because there is "周囲" before "運命力".
I think it means "Power of fate of people around".

If so, I think this line is quite weird. Because, in the first part (周囲の運命力を湾曲させ), it affects other people around, but in the second part (服用したやつを意図せず萌えに向かわせる), it affects the one who drinks it.

I would really like to hear more opinions.

psyblade Wrote:I'm confused, because there is "周囲" before "運命力".
I think it means "Power of fate of people around".

If so, I think this line is quite weird. Because, in the first part (周囲の運命力を湾曲させ), it affects other people around, but in the second part (服用したやつを意図せず萌えに向かわせる), it affects the one who drinks it.

I would really like to hear more opinions.

Oh, it's about 周囲　then, sorry I misunderstood (but in your second (so for me final) translation in you removed "people" before).

In my understanding 周囲 isn't about "other people" it's the limit to which the power of fate reaches (if think about a circumference (周囲), it's the extremity of a circle), like a zone of effect, a point of application, the part of reality affected by fate (and if you think concretely again, a power can't strictly be bent -- just increased or decreased -- but its effect can).

A translation would something like "It curves the outreach of the power of fate" but it's quite heavy in English.

EratiK Wrote:

Kuroro Wrote:I have another question, this time it's more about interpretation than it is about grammar I guess, anyway the lines are from an anime scene where a boy goes to the hospital to visit the girl he loves, this is what she says to him:

(あなたって本当に変な人。病院にお見舞いに来たのにずっと黙り込んでいるんですもの。)
あたしと心中しない？

I think I remember this line (四月は君の嘘, right?). For me it's indeed about double suicide (a thing that cursed soulmates do), call it a black humour love confession, it's coherent with the hospital context and all.

Thank you EratiK And yes you're totally right it's from 四月は君の嘘

You're welcome, but Ash ninjaed me. There might be spoilers in the link he provided so you might not want to read too in depth until after you've finished the series.

I didn't even notice the reply from Ash_S, I'm sorry, thanks to you too I'll probably take a look at that website tomorrow, I'm planning to finish the series today

Hey everyone, I'm having trouble with something I haven't seen before

実は動いている。 それを動いていると見るのも動いていないと見るのも距離一つです

The と。。。のも thing is throwing me off. Is this some sort of common construction?

Thanks

sparky14 Wrote:Hey everyone, I'm having trouble with something I haven't seen before

実は動いている。 それを動いていると見るのも動いていないと見るのも距離一つです

The と。。。のも thing is throwing me off. Is this some sort of common construction?

Thanks

I believe this is just how you would say something like 'see X as Y'.
Literally:
それを・・・見る -- 'See that'
動いていると -- 'as moving/working' (?)

The も is just the 'also' particle (or whatever it's actually called).
Kind of like how you can say 世の中には善人もいるし、悪人もいる。

And the の is just nounifying it... or whatever that's called... you know, 名詞化.

XをYと見るのもZと見るのも~
To see X as Y and to see it as Z is ~

That's how I thought of it anyway; if I'm wrong maybe someone will correct me.
Or maybe not.
You'll just have to take what I said with a grain of salt, but I hope it helped.

Can somebody help me understand the difference between the following words:

批判
批評
判断
評論

I think 判断 is used in reference to trials, but I'm clueless about the others. They're all defined as criticism/critique/review but what kind of nuance do they carry? On one hand criticism sounds quite negative to me, on the other hand a critique/review seems more impartial (and also something that can be done professionally).

Kuroro Wrote:Can somebody help me understand the difference between the following words:
批判
批評
判断
評論

As a hint it's good to follow the last (most important) kanji, for me:

批判 -- this one is used in Kant's Critique of pure reason, "critique" in the narrow sense; can also mean (negative) criticism
批評 -- this one is the general term, critique/review (general evaluation (eg: movie review), comment that can also be negative)
判断 -- this one is judgment like you said (in trial)
評論 -- this one often comes up with literary critique (文芸評論), ie writing a complex piece (vs a review than is less in-depth) that can show an underlying thought current (like marxist literary criticism, deconstructivism...)

Thank you EratiK

Hey, I wrote this on the mybb forum but then realized they weren't synchronized... anyway:

Though I admit this is translated translated from another language, Bible translations tend to be pretty good, so I'm not too worried about it being "bad" Japanese. So, I was wondering about the grammar of this verse:

Quote:自分を卑しくし、死にまで従い、実に十字架の死にまでも従われました。

The verb 従う is used in the passive form, but I don't quite understand why. It would seem to me that the normal 従いました would be used. Can anyone explain?

It would have been nice to give the verse; this is Philippians 2:8 "And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

This is the "honorific passive"; so it's not actually passive, it's just another way of making a verb honorific.

yudantaiteki Wrote:It would have been nice to give the verse; this is Philippians 2:8 "And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

This is the "honorific passive"; so it's not actually passive, it's just another way of making a verb honorific.

Sorry I didn't provide the reference nor translation. I didn't think it was important... though next time I know I have an accurate translation (like another Bible text), I'll make sure to provide it.

Anyway, thanks for the quick, clear response. Now that you've explained it, I'm seeing this type of honorific language everywhere, at least in the Bible.

My question: what is the meaning of "yuugo" at about the 5-6 second in the video?

"hatake to kuruma mo yuugo"

I understand they're putting a tomato field on a truck, and that it's a Japanese gijutsu, just not familiar w/ yuugo...

r/s

融合（ゆうごう）=fusion

I have a problem to analyse the construction of the following sentence:
このイベントが行われた目的はお母さんたちに児童館に親しみを持ってもらい、交流の場として活用してもらうことです。
(the event here is… a crawling race between babies organized in a children care center!)

Basic examples of using V-te morau normally correspond to situations where the subject of the sentence benefits from an action made by someone else:

（私は）鈴木さんにおごってもらった。
(=(Watashi wa) Suzuki san ni ogotte moratta.) (from my, the receiver’s, point of view)
I was treated by Mr.Suzuki (=Mr.Suzuki treated me.)
[http://maggiesensei.com/2010/02/22/（〜して）あげる＋くれる＋もらう-shite-ageru＋kureru＋morau/]

Here, I have trouble mapping the different components of the sentence on the above pattern.
Who is the subject "receiving" the benefit of the 持つ action, and who/what is the subject of 持つ in the first place?

I often have problems in deciphering such sentences, so perhaps I am misunderstanding something.
Any hint?

The mothers are receiving the benefit, and are the subject of 持つ.

EDIT: Wrong, see below

yudantaiteki Wrote:The mothers are receiving the benefit, and are the subject of 持つ.

This makes sense. However, I am still confused about the grammar:
目的はお母さんたちに児童館に親しみを持ってもらい、…

First, if the mothers are the subject, why is it "お母さんたちに"?
In the "canonical" example, （私は）鈴木さんにおごってもらった, in contrast, 鈴木さん followed by に is not the subject (rather, I am the one that benefits).

It looks like, despite seemingly identical structures, the grammatical function of the words at corresponding positions in the two sentences is different.

Should the present sentence be considered a different pattern for using V-te morau?
If so, could one provide other examples illustrating the same logic?

jmignot Wrote:

yudantaiteki Wrote:The mothers are receiving the benefit, and are the subject of 持つ.

This makes sense. However, I am still confused about the grammar:
目的はお母さんたちに児童館に親しみを持ってもらい、…

First, if the mothers are the subject, why is it "お母さんたちに"?
In the "canonical" example, （私は）鈴木さんにおごってもらった, in contrast, 鈴木さん followed by に is not the subject (rather, I am the one that benefits).

It looks like, despite seemingly identical structures, the grammatical function of the words at corresponding positions in the two sentences is different.

Should the present sentence be considered a different pattern for using V-te morau?
If so, could one provide other examples illustrating the same logic?

Hmm, I think the people holding the event are receiving the benefit, no? It's just polite to phrase it as though the mother's are doing them a favor, even if in reality they're providing a service to the mothers.