So today is America's Birthday and then there's a oneshot manga about it

1. アメリカ合衆国が世界を変えていくようにアメリカ合衆国たる彼が国という存在の暗黙の定めを変えていくのでは、と。
What is のでは and と ?

2. まさか四桁の時を歩んでなお新たな可能性をみつけるなんて。
What is 四桁の時を歩む ?

Vempele Wrote:http://lang-8.com/1283282/journals/12053...3153101870

大きくとると、「関わっていく」という意味ですね。ですからこの場合は、勉強していくぞ、という感じかな。

The 大きくとると just means "basically", 関わっていく is the actual answer.

Is this a normal phrase to say 'basically'? Your writing with the カッコ would make a lot more sense.

Hi, can someone please help with this sentence. This author is rather abstract sometimes.

I think the first part of the sentence means, "It seemed like the sound of a far off wind could be heard", but then the second part doesn't fit. What is a reasonable translation of the whole thing? Thanks!

なんだかずっと遠くの方で風の音でも聞こえたみたいだな、というような顔つきで。

I think it means (someone) is making a facial expression as if "he/she can even heard something from far off"


just my guess

myxoma Wrote:I think it means (someone) is making a facial expression as if "he/she can even heard something from far off"


just my guess

Thanks. I think I've got it figured out now.

Context: The female narrator of the story has approached a man reading a book at a ski lodge and she asks him if he wants to go skiing. He looks up at her from his book and then it says as per my post above:

なんだかずっと遠くの方で風の音でも聞こえたみたいだな、というような顔つきで。

So when he looks up the expression on his face is like the expression of someone who says that it seems like some sort of sound made by the wind coming from far away can be heard.

Quote:So when he looks up the expression on his face is like the expression of someone who says that it seems like some sort of sound made by the wind coming from far away can be heard.

you've got the right idea. a couple of things: there's nothing here about it being the expression of someone who says something.

and 風の音でも - he looks like he's heard the sound of the wind or something, not "some sort of sound made by the wind".

あなたはスキーはしないのですか、と私はなるべくさりげない声を出して氷男に尋ねた。彼はゆっくりと顔を上げた。なんだかずっと遠くの方で風の音でも聞こえたみたいだな、というような顔つきで。
↑i found this much of the context if anyone else was looking.

OK I'll have a go ...

The sentence is the narrator's inner voice, commenting on the manner in which the man looked up from the book, which from his facial expression was apparently like he'd heard the sound of a distant wind.

なんだかずっと遠くの方で風の音でも聞こえたみたいだな
You look somehow like you heard the sound of a distant wind or something, don't you.

というよう 'so to speak' or 'in the manner just described'

というような顔つきで 'with a what-I-just-said facial expression'

I guess a literal English translation would be:

You look somehow like you heard the sound of a distant wind or something, don't you, with that facial expression.

HTH, caveat emptor etc

isn't the ～～～～みたいだな the 'thoughts' of the guy? like that's what the narrator thinks he looks like he's thinking from his expression, not her direct thoughts.

Whoops, you are right, thank you Ash_S . The extra context helps.

Updated version:

なんだかずっと遠くの方で風の音でも聞こえたみたいだな
"Somehow seems like I just heard the sound of a distant wind or something" (the 氷男 thinking)

というよう 'as if to say'

というような顔つきで 'with an as-if-saying/thinking-what-I-just-said facial expression'

I guess a literal English translation (as a prepositional phrase) would be:

With a facial expression as if to say, "Somehow seems like I just heard the sound of a distant wind or something".

HTH, caveat emptor etc

I've left the original version as AFAIK that would be a valid interpretation if the narrator were transcribing her inner thoughts (which is how I interpreted John555's original context), rather than describing the scene to the reader (as is clear from the context provided by Ash_S), though there may be grammatical issues with that interpretation still beyond the detection of my current level of nihongo-fu.

The だな part did seem a bit masculine for a female even in thought, but I figured it was just about passable.

jberhow Wrote:Is this a normal phrase to say 'basically'?

大きくとると seems more like 'broadly speaking' or 'taking the broad view' to me.

klloud Wrote:"Besides the meaning of a strong willpower, 'shin(1)' also includes the meaning of a heart that must hold a person as a person (?).

My doubt is about whether 人が人として持たなければならない modifies「心」or not(2).

(1) I read 心 as こころ here. If しん is also possible then I hope it doesn't come up in a listening test

(2) Yep, it's an adjectival phrase.

I interpret it to mean 'the spirit one necessarily has as a person' but it's a little tricksy.

Quote from recent video about US v. Japan battlebot competition thing going around. I thought I knew what this meant but now I'm second guessing myself:

俺たちには巨大ロボットがある。 お前たちにも巨大ロボットがある。
Which I believe is "We have giant robots. You have giant robots too."

I've seen "XはYがある。" to have a similar possessive meaning. Looking around the forums/google, from what I can gather XにYがある is the actual underlying construct, but X usually becomes the topic, resulting in XにはYがある, and then marking X with に is no longer compulsory, but if kept adds extra emphasis/contrast (http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=7290).

My interpretation of this is that には is related to the exclusivity meaning that magamo was talking about in that link, indicating that the speaker is indicating that his group has robots, and that the addressed group has robots, but nobody else has robots are they're irrelevant to this conversation.

My second question is this: I was told that 俺たちは巨大ロボットがある。 お前たちも巨大ロボットがある。, without the にs, is not grammatically correct. I'm not clear on why -- I'd think that, and this is still assuming I'm understanding what magamo said correctly, it might sound too neutral to be natural in that context, but I'm not clear on why/if it would be grammatically incorrect elsewhere (ie, if someone just asked you what you had, in a general sense?)

Saginaim Wrote:My second question is this: I was told that 俺たちは巨大ロボットがある。 お前たちも巨大ロボットがある。, without the にs, is not grammatically correct. I'm not clear on why -- I'd think that, and this is still assuming I'm understanding what magamo said correctly, it might sound too neutral to be natural in that context, but I'm not clear on why/if it would be grammatically incorrect elsewhere (ie, if someone just asked you what you had, in a general sense?)

If you think about 〜がある in general, it makes sense. The sentence "There is a pencil on the table". 「テーブルの上にえんぴつがある」right? Needs に. So in this sentence, the question "where is the robot?" is being answered by "we/us".

So to explain it further, 「Aがある」, the subject is A. But if you say 「BはAがある」, try writing it without the は. What is the particle? BがAがある. Now there are two subjects and it's confusing. So B, being the "where" needs to be marked with に, not が. 「BにAがある」. This is standard construct for ある.　は by itself defaults to が in meaning (sometimes を).

Change the verb to 持つ for example. 「BはAを持っている」. Now if you write it without the は, it becomes 「BがAを持っている」. Now it makes sense. It comes down to the verb being used.

The は in any sentence acts as an emphasizer and topic marker. Take the two sentences:

BにAはある
BにはAがある

What's different? The first one sounds like "In B, there is *A*." The second is, "In *B*, there is A." Where the stress in English would be placed to change the nuance can be done via a は in Japanese.

Does that help at all?

That makes complete sense, and using some kind of locative indicator to show possession comes up in several languages anyway, so there's nothing surprising there.

So I guess my actual question should have been, in light of that, why am I also seeing things like 私は車があります and 象は鼻が長い/象が鼻が長い showing up as attested sentences in reference books as examples of the same kind of possession? I feel like there's some nuance there that I'm missing.

Xは creates a very loose semantic association with what follows it. Basically it just means that X is a topic which is known to the listener, and you're going to make some comment about X. So with 象は鼻が長い, your topic is 象 (known to the listener because presumably they know what an elephant is), and your comment about it is 鼻が長い. It's not really about possession, it's just topic-comment structure. Topic-comment is used in a large number of languages, including English (though not to the extent that it's used in Japanese).

I have never seen the explanation that Xは is related to or a shortening of Xには; this seems odd to me but I would have to look at the sources in more depth.

I have the translation for these 2 sentences but don't know how it works out to meaning that.

えんりょすんなっていっただろ I thought I told you not to hold back

そうこなくっちゃ That's the spirit

遠慮すんな=するな - Don't hold back
って言っただろう - I thought I told you

そう来なくっちゃ is an idiom: 相手の提案・反応に対して歓迎の意を表す言い回し。 It's from 来なくては, but if you're asking for the exact reason why it has come to mean this...well, one 知恵袋 answer offers そうこなくっちゃ=その様にならなくては!。

Hey everyone, need help with this sentence

物語は、娘の雪が、母である花の半生を語る形で綴られる

である is throwing me off, not really sure how 形 is being used here, and don't get how the last verb is being used. Basically, I don't get it at all.

Thanks

sparky14 Wrote:Hey everyone, need help with this sentence

物語は、娘の雪が、母である花の半生を語る形で綴られる

である is throwing me off, not really sure how 形 is being used here, and don't get how the last verb is being used. Basically, I don't get it at all.

Thanks

>>>The story is written in the form of the daughter, Yuki, describing the life of her mother, Hana.

You know である is like だ (to be)? AはBである (A is B). And in this case we have a relative clause: BであるA (A, which is B). So, "Hana, who is [Yuki's] mother".

And 形 is referring to the format of the story. 娘の雪が、母である花の半生を語る is a big relative clause describing the 形.

綴る can be used to mean composing a poem or piece of writing and it's in the passive here, so "The story is written..."

Hope this helps a bit!

Hello,

I was wondering what the construction "さえいとおしい" or "さえ愛しい" means exactly. I could not find a good definition Googling it, but it seems it's generally preceded by some undesirable characteristic?

For example: "情けない姿さえ愛しい", which made me think it means something along the lines of "I like you/it's fine/I don't mind even when you look pathetic".

But there are also other constructions such as " このお約束さえ愛しい" or "削られた砂の器さえいとおしい" which makes it less clear to me.

Would be nice if someone could explain it, thanks.

"さえいとおしい" and "さえ愛しい mean nothing. さえ is a postfix not a prefix. It means something like "Even ~"
So, something like それは子供さえ分かるだろう would be something like "Ugh, even children know that"

994: Riddle - 謎
This character had one stroke less in RTK. Now that I see it for the first time on my computer, it has that weird extra dot in the middle.

I googled it and some sites show it as 謎 in the text and without the dot in the handwritten form. Some don't.

Is there an explanation other than that now it's a nice pictograph?

tikka Wrote:994: Riddle - 謎
This character had one stroke less in RTK. Now that I see it for the first time on my computer, it has that weird extra dot in the middle.

I googled it and some sites show it as 謎 in the text and without the dot in the handwritten form. Some don't.

Is there an explanation other than that now it's a nice pictograph?

Think pragmatically here: no one is really gonna notice or care whether you write it one way or the other, and you'll recognize it either way too.

RandomQuotes Wrote:"さえいとおしい" and "さえ愛しい mean nothing. さえ is a postfix not a prefix. It means something like "Even ~"
So, something like それは子供さえ分かるだろう would be something like "Ugh, even children know that"

The combination does mean something, it has to be some sort of set expression. If you Google "さえ愛しい" you get 16k+ hits.

tenken3 Wrote:

RandomQuotes Wrote:"さえいとおしい" and "さえ愛しい mean nothing. さえ is a postfix not a prefix. It means something like "Even ~"
So, something like それは子供さえ分かるだろう would be something like "Ugh, even children know that"

The combination does mean something, it has to be some sort of set expression. If you Google "さえ愛しい" you get 16k+ hits.

If you google "さえ高い" you get 67K hits, and if you google "さえ難しい" you get 176K hits.

tenken3 Wrote:

RandomQuotes Wrote:"さえいとおしい" and "さえ愛しい mean nothing. さえ is a postfix not a prefix. It means something like "Even ~"
So, something like それは子供さえ分かるだろう would be something like "Ugh, even children know that"

The combination does mean something, it has to be some sort of set expression. If you Google "さえ愛しい" you get 16k+ hits.

It does mean something and RandomQuotes answered it for you. It means "Even ~ is lovely." It's not a set expression. It's just a grammar construct that can be used in a variety of ways.

Here, I'll take yudantaiteki's example to the extreme. I did a google search for "even cheese" and got 64k+ results. Now wouldn't you think it's a bit silly for someone learning English to insist that there must be some special meaning to the phrase "even cheese" because it got over 64k hits on google? That's what you're challenge looks like with "さえ愛しい".

You asked a question and got a pretty good answer from RandomQuotes.