当然といえば当然 is not so much "only natural" as "kinda natural".

Reading fiction I find many times that a chain of actions is written with the verbs ending in the stem, what is the meaning of doing this? Is it like using the te form?

Ether22 Wrote:Reading fiction I find many times that a chain of actions is written with the verbs ending in the stem, what is the meaning of doing this? Is it like using the te form?

Yeah, it's just a more literary/formal way of doing the exact same thing. It doesn't work with other uses of the -te form though.

Tzadeck Wrote:

Ether22 Wrote:Reading fiction I find many times that a chain of actions is written with the verbs ending in the stem, what is the meaning of doing this? Is it like using the te form?

Yeah, it's just a more literary/formal way of doing the exact same thing. It doesn't work with other uses of the -te form though.

Thanks! It was bugging me a lot.

Ether22 Wrote:Reading fiction I find many times that a chain of actions is written with the verbs ending in the stem, what is the meaning of doing this? Is it like using the te form?

If what you're talking about is what I'm thinking of, then it is what one of my readers calls "the suspensive". Here's what it says:

"The suspensive is a form used at the end of a complete clause in which the tense element is "suspended" until determined by the verb in a later parallel clause. The use of this form avoids having two separate parallel sentences."

The example from the reading passage is "Tosi wa mada wakai yoo desu ga, se ga takaku, ago ni wa nagai he ga arimasu." "He seems still to be young, and he is tall and wears a long beard."

The note says that "takaku" is "suspensive" and the tense is determined by "arimasu". Otherwise two separate parallel sentences would have been necessary: "Se ga takai desu. Hige ga arimasu."

The notes say the suspensive of verbs is the same as the stem: tabe, kaki etc.

It says "the suspensive is essentially a literary form and is usually replaced in speech by the -te form...."

Later it gives another example involving verbs:

"Gaikoku no dokuritu o sontyoo si, kozin no ziyuu o syooti sinakereba naranai." "One must respect the independence of foreign countries and acknowledge the freedom of the individual." In this case, "(sontyoo) si" is suspensive, and parallel to "(syooti) sinakereba and "shares the same negative conditional form and the same -nakereba naranai, "must", construction...."

嬉しいなったら嬉しいな～

What's "ったら" in here? As in conditional form or something like と言ったら etc?

And...

"この娘に敵前逃亡されそうだしもうちょっと黙っとかないと"

Context: A guy accidentally said something about someone's else embarrassing secret. A girl heard him and ask him what's he talking about. He responded with "nothing" but in his mind...

敵前逃亡 confuse me because of the passive sentence. Who's running from who (the enemy) here? I assume the one running is the girl but I'm not sure about the "enemy".

Thanks.

And sorry for my bad English.

嬉しいなったら嬉しいな

I think this means something like "If you're happy, I'm happy"
なったら＝If become
Someone correct me if I'm wrong though!

Ah sorry, guess I should clarify about that.

The one saying that is happy that he's chosen to do something he really wanted. So I assume he's the only one that is happy.

I was wondering if the line means something like "When/If/Once I'm happy, I'm reaaally happy!". But I'm not sure...


But thanks for the help!

Quote:嬉しいなったら嬉しいな

That's neither うれしくなったら or うれしかったら, hence not a conditional form of うれしい, but a contraction of 「嬉しいな」と言ったら嬉しいな～. Of course that 言う doesn't have a substancial meaning. It's a phrase to fix rhythm. You'll get it if you hear the phrase sung.

viharati Wrote:

Quote:嬉しいなったら嬉しいな

That's neither うれしくなったら or うれしかったら, hence not a conditional form of うれしい, but a contraction of 「嬉しいな」と言ったら嬉しいな～. Of course that 言う doesn't have a substancial meaning. It's a phrase to fix rhythm. You'll get it if you hear the phrase sung.

Oh my god, I forgot the basics.

So it's like he's actually more happy than we may think? Ok, got it, thanks!

I am new to this forum, but I have some questions to ask.

What does 分 in this sentence mean?

"しかも、ロボットは生殖機能が無い分　エロに対する耐性が極端に低いのです"

I translated it as: "Moreover, robots do not have generative function, so it resistant to erotic is extremely low."

But I really dont know what is this 分 mean.

"Someone help me, help me, help me pleeeeheeeeze...." -Donny Osmond.

This is the only sentence from my reading passage that I don't "get". Appreciate any help!

この道三十年、孫が二、三人もあるというおじいちゃんばかり。

They've been doing this for 30 years, and they're all old men with 2-3 grandkids (という covers the entire start of the sentence, it just sounds more natural in English this way). Not super familiar with この道, but the following dictionary example sentence seemed a good match:

この道 23 年のベテラン　a veteran with 23 years of experience (in this field)

psyblade Wrote:I am new to this forum, but I have some questions to ask.

What does 分 in this sentence mean?

"しかも、ロボットは生殖機能が無い分　エロに対する耐性が極端に低いのです"

I translated it as: "Moreover, robots do not have generative function, so it resistant to erotic is extremely low."

But I really dont know what is this 分 mean.

More context is needed to understand the meaning of the 耐性 (more specifically, whose 耐性). I suspect the above sentence is part of a sales pitch or promotional text regarding erotic robots, but I could be wrong. This will affect the interpretation of the sentence.

To understand the meaning of 分, try searching the web for the phrase "肉が無い分" which will give you several sample sentences. I don't know exactly how to translate it but I think of it as meaning "due to the fact that (this food dish) doesn't have meat (i.e. is lacking the part where the meat would usually be)".

For instance, here's a random sample I found on the web: "肉が無い分ヘルシーでしたね". I would translate this as, "Because it's meatless, this dish is healthy isn't it" or "due to the lack of meat, this dish is healthy".

As a joke I recently used a similar construction. I was eating an expensive vegetarian dish where tofu was used to simulate meat. My companion wondered aloud, "since this is a vegetarian dish, the ingredients must be cheap. So why is this dish so expensive?" As a joke, I sarcastically replied, "肉が無い分高いです", which elicited a laugh.

Vempele Wrote:They've been doing this for 30 years, and they're all old men with 2-3 grandkids (という covers the entire start of the sentence, it just sounds more natural in English this way). Not super familiar with この道, but the following dictionary example sentence seemed a good match:

この道 23 年のベテラン　a veteran with 23 years of experience (in this field)

Thanks! That makes perfect sense in the context of the reading passage.

rtkrtk Wrote:

psyblade Wrote:I am new to this forum, but I have some questions to ask.

What does 分 in this sentence mean?

"しかも、ロボットは生殖機能が無い分　エロに対する耐性が極端に低いのです"

I translated it as: "Moreover, robots do not have generative function, so it resistant to erotic is extremely low."

But I really dont know what is this 分 mean.

To understand the meaning of 分, try searching the web for the phrase "肉が無い分" which will give you several sample sentences. I don't know exactly how to translate it but I think of it as meaning "due to the fact that (this food dish) doesn't have meat (i.e. is lacking the part where the meat would usually be)".

I could be wrong but I don't think there's necessarily any causative link when using 分 in this way. It's more a quality judgement saying that the second thing makes up for the other, or contradicts the expectation that the first fact implies.

I'd translate this particular sentence as:

"On top of that, despite being unable to reproduce, robots are not at all resistant to erotic activities."

rtkrtk Wrote:

psyblade Wrote:I am new to this forum, but I have some questions to ask.

What does 分 in this sentence mean?

"しかも、ロボットは生殖機能が無い分　エロに対する耐性が極端に低いのです"

I translated it as: "Moreover, robots do not have generative function, so it resistant to erotic is extremely low."

But I really dont know what is this 分 mean.

More context is needed to understand the meaning of the 耐性 (more specifically, whose 耐性). I suspect the above sentence is part of a sales pitch or promotional text regarding erotic robots, but I could be wrong. This will affect the interpretation of the sentence.

To understand the meaning of 分, try searching the web for the phrase "肉が無い分" which will give you several sample sentences. I don't know exactly how to translate it but I think of it as meaning "due to the fact that (this food dish) doesn't have meat (i.e. is lacking the part where the meat would usually be)".

For instance, here's a random sample I found on the web: "肉が無い分ヘルシーでしたね". I would translate this as, "Because it's meatless, this dish is healthy isn't it" or "due to the lack of meat, this dish is healthy".

As a joke I recently used a similar construction. I was eating an expensive vegetarian dish where tofu was used to simulate meat. My companion wondered aloud, "since this is a vegetarian dish, the ingredients must be cheap. So why is this dish so expensive?" As a joke, I sarcastically replied, "肉が無い分高いです", which elicited a laugh.

Thanks for your answer.
I saw this sentence in a manga.
The situation is, There is robot that suffered an attack of erotic.

Boy: "ロボット相手にもエロは効くのか”
Girl: ”高性能な人工知能は人と同じように興奮します"
”しかも、ロボットは生殖機能が無い分　エロに対する耐性が極端に低いのです”

Boy: Does erotic attack also have effect on robot?
Girl: A robot with a high quality AI, also be excited with erotic like human.
Moreover, robots do not have generative function, so it resistant to erotic is extremely low.
Did I translate it correctly?

A bit off topic, but are you native Japanese speaker? Because, your location is "Japan"

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Splatted Wrote:I could be wrong but I don't think there's necessarily any causative link when using 分 in this way. It's more a quality judgement saying that the second thing makes up for the other, or contradicts the expectation that the first fact implies.

I'd translate this particular sentence as:

"On top of that, despite being unable to reproduce, robots are not at all resistant to erotic activities."

Thanks for your answer.
I think I need to provide more information about these situation, to find the correct answer.


---
Today is 24/12, merry chrismast to all of you.

psyblade Wrote:

rtkrtk Wrote:

psyblade Wrote:I am new to this forum, but I have some questions to ask.

What does 分 in this sentence mean?

"しかも、ロボットは生殖機能が無い分　エロに対する耐性が極端に低いのです"

I translated it as: "Moreover, robots do not have generative function, so it resistant to erotic is extremely low."

But I really dont know what is this 分 mean.

More context is needed to understand the meaning of the 耐性 (more specifically, whose 耐性). I suspect the above sentence is part of a sales pitch or promotional text regarding erotic robots, but I could be wrong. This will affect the interpretation of the sentence.

To understand the meaning of 分, try searching the web for the phrase "肉が無い分" which will give you several sample sentences. I don't know exactly how to translate it but I think of it as meaning "due to the fact that (this food dish) doesn't have meat (i.e. is lacking the part where the meat would usually be)".

For instance, here's a random sample I found on the web: "肉が無い分ヘルシーでしたね". I would translate this as, "Because it's meatless, this dish is healthy isn't it" or "due to the lack of meat, this dish is healthy".

As a joke I recently used a similar construction. I was eating an expensive vegetarian dish where tofu was used to simulate meat. My companion wondered aloud, "since this is a vegetarian dish, the ingredients must be cheap. So why is this dish so expensive?" As a joke, I sarcastically replied, "肉が無い分高いです", which elicited a laugh.

Thanks for your answer.
I saw this sentence in a manga.
The situation is, There is robot that suffered an attack of erotic.

Boy: "ロボット相手にもエロは効くのか”
Girl: ”高性能な人工知能は人と同じように興奮します"
”しかも、ロボットは生殖機能が無い分　エロに対する耐性が極端に低いのです”

Boy: Does erotic attack also have effect on robot?
Girl: A robot with a high quality AI, also be excited with erotic like human.
Moreover, robots do not have generative function, so it resistant to erotic is extremely low.
Did I translate it correctly?

Hm, interesting passage. My attempt at a natural English translation (not literal, instead trying to preserve the meaning):

Boy: Well, it looks like even robots are susceptible to erotic attacks. (I am interpreting のか as a rhetorical question. You said there was a robot that already suffered from an erotic attack, so the boy's statement seems like it is a rhetorical question that makes an observation about the existing situation.)

Girl: A high-fidelity artificial brain can become aroused just like a human's. Moreover, robots have very low resistance against erotic attacks since their arousal serves no reproductive function. (Without more context, it's not clear to me why the lack of a reproductive function would make resistance against erotic attacks lower; it seems the text is implying that a reproductive function is serving as an "outlet" for erotic urges that tends to reduce their intensity, whereas with robots, the lack of the natural reproductive function allows the erotic impulses to run out of control, which makes the robots more susceptible to "erotic attacks", whatever those are.)

Do you feel like posting more context?

Splatte Wrote:I could be wrong but I don't think there's necessarily any causative link when using 分 in this way. It's more a quality judgement saying that the second thing makes up for the other, or contradicts the expectation that the first fact implies.

Interesting. I don't know about this. Checking in my Casio EX-word, I find the following sample sentence: "期待していなかった分、よけいにうれしかった" which is translated as "I was all the more happy because I hadn't expected that". There seems to be an implied causative link in this particular sample sentence.

psyblade Wrote:A bit off topic, but are you native Japanese speaker? Because, your location is "Japan"

Oh, no. There are probably a lot of people on this forum who are foreigners (gaijin) living in Japan. So, don't assume my Japanese is correct - I'm here to learn like everybody else.

rtkrtk Wrote:Hm, interesting passage. My attempt at a natural English translation (not literal, instead trying to preserve the meaning):

Boy: Well, it looks like even robots are susceptible to erotic attacks. (I am interpreting のか as a rhetorical question. You said there was a robot that already suffered from an erotic attack, so the boy's statement seems like it is a rhetorical question that makes an observation about the existing situation.)

Girl: A high-fidelity artificial brain can become aroused just like a human's. Moreover, robots have very low resistance against erotic attacks since their arousal serves no reproductive function. (Without more context, it's not clear to me why the lack of a reproductive function would make resistance against erotic attacks lower; it seems the text is implying that a reproductive function is serving as an "outlet" for erotic urges that tends to reduce their intensity, whereas with robots, the lack of the natural reproductive function allows the erotic impulses to run out of control, which makes the robots more susceptible to "erotic attacks", whatever those are.)

Do you feel like posting more context?

THIS, I also cant understand why the lack of generative function would make the resistant again erotic lower.
This, made me unsure about my translation, so I posted it here, searching for someone, who can recheck my translation.
You can see the whole manga chapter here. It's from Shonen Jump magazine 2014-04, page 212: http://mmraw.blogspot.com/2014/12/shonen...14-04.html

The fact is, I also suffered a lot from "Japanese logic". Sometime, I really cant understand what they said, why they said so... because I think that is not logical. I also ask my teacher about this problem and she said "Simply because they are Japanese".

rtkrtk Wrote:Oh, no. There are probably a lot of people on this forum who are foreigners (gaijin) living in Japan. So, don't assume my Japanese is correct - I'm here to learn like everybody else.

I also thought that you are not Japanese, because your English is very complex.
I think, even, you are a native English speaker.

psyblade Wrote:I also cant understand why the lack of generative function would make the resistant again erotic lower.

Reasonable interpretation for that …分 (amount, part) should be "we've saved our dedication to designing reproductive function for that to designing extremely low resistance to erotic affairs".
Edit: 分 here means "amount" and 生殖機能がない分 (negative value) stands for to what degree it's weak at erotic matters (positive value), which will balance in the end. It's not necessarily causality.

Quote:The fact is, I also suffered a lot from "Japanese logic". Sometime, I really cant understand what they said, why they said so... because I think that is not logical. I also ask my teacher about this problem and she said "Simply because they are Japanese". big_smile

It seems a harmful idea and a harmful teacher.

This sentence is giving me some trouble:

だれも見たコトないけれど, だれもが見たコトあるような, そんな風の島。

I'll break it down into how I'm reading the individual noun phrases/clauses:

だれも見たコトない = what nobody's ever seen (This looks like a set phrase -- I see it coming up in other places being translated as such).
だれもが見たコトある = what everybody's seen
ような, そんな風の島 = Wind Island [is] like...

No clue how to put this all together, what the gist of this is as a whole, or if my 'translations' of the component clauses are even correct in the first place.

Saginaim Wrote:This sentence is giving me some trouble:

だれも見たコトないけれど, だれもが見たコトあるような, そんな風の島。

I'll break it down into how I'm reading the individual noun phrases/clauses:

だれも見たコトない = what nobody's ever seen (This looks like a set phrase -- I see it coming up in other places being translated as such).
だれもが見たコトある = what everybody's seen
ような, そんな風の島 = Wind Island [is] like...

No clue how to put this all together, what the gist of this is as a whole, or if my 'translations' of the component clauses are even correct in the first place.

そんな風 here means "that type of" or "that manner of"--something like that; has nothing to do with wind.

So, "The type of island that everyone has seen, and yet no one has seen."

Also, it's pronounced differently: ふう.

Vempele Wrote:Also, it's pronounced differently: ふう.

Oops, I really should have mentioned that, haha.

Oh, sorry, left a word out in there -- the last bit was actually そんな七ツ風の島, with 七ツ風の島 being the name of the island. So I'm thinking this would just read, "Seven Wind Island was like something that everybody had seen, and yet nobody had seen"?