yudantaiteki Wrote:I would translate it as "With a blue sky as a backdrop, what would come to anyone's mind are carp banners, and irises and blue flags."

Thanks.

The problem with this reader is that it has notes and vocabulary for each selection but doesn't provide an English translation, which is always helpful.

Hi guys! Kinda new to the forums, but I'm here to ask about the lyrics to one of the songs of my favourite band.
They're really confusing and I wondered if some of the veterans around here know more than I do:

揺れる炎宇宙元素エーテル
虚空輪廻対のアカシャ
眠る生命(いのち)アストラルの幻影
リピカ綴る自己のイデア

yureru honoo uchuu genso ether
kyokuu rinne tsui no akasha
nemuru inochi astral no gen'ei
ripika tsuduru jiko no idea

It's kind of long, so I'm not sure if you can really call it a phrase, but please try! ^^

Question about a construction in my Japanese reader:

Is this particular construction still used today or is it obsolete? I can't find it in the other reference books I have:

Eiga e ikazu ni.... Instead of going to the movies....

This "-(a)zu ni" meaning "instead" I can't find anywhere else.

Thanks.

john555 Wrote:Question about a construction in my Japanese reader:

Is this particular construction still used today or is it obsolete? I can't find it in the other reference books I have:

Eiga e ikazu ni.... Instead of going to the movies....

This "-(a)zu ni" meaning "instead" I can't find anywhere else.

Thanks.

X-zu ni is still used today and it means without doing X, we did Y. I think it's often (if not always) followed by an other action.
The "instead" translation is just a translation, but it makes sense because:
"We didn't go to the movies, we went shopping..." is just begging for a "instead" in English.

Also just in case you didn't know, -(a)zu works like -nai and negates the verb. It's mostly used in set phrases (like -zu ni ;P)

comeauch Wrote:

john555 Wrote:Question about a construction in my Japanese reader:

Is this particular construction still used today or is it obsolete? I can't find it in the other reference books I have:

Eiga e ikazu ni.... Instead of going to the movies....

This "-(a)zu ni" meaning "instead" I can't find anywhere else.

Thanks.

X-zu ni is still used today and it means without doing X, we did Y. I think it's often (if not always) followed by an other action.
The "instead" translation is just a translation, but it makes sense because:
"We didn't go to the movies, we went shopping..." is just begging for a "instead" in English.

Also just in case you didn't know, -(a)zu works like -nai and negates the verb. It's mostly used in set phrases (like -zu ni ;P)

Thanks.

comeauch Wrote:The "instead" translation is just a translation, but it makes sense because:
"We didn't go to the movies, we went shopping..." is just begging for a "instead" in English.

Also, "instead" can be incorrect translation for other instances of -(a)zu ni, for example:
声を出さずに笑った
何も言わずに去った

The ~ず ending is extremely common - as a general impression I would guess it occurs in perhaps 10% of sentences in narrative fiction, maybe more.

The ~ぬ ending is less common but still required knowledge.

I disagree that either is confined to 'set phrases', though inevitably they will be used with some verbs more than others.

The construction ずに is common in both spoken and written language, informal and formal.

ず by itself is primarily a feature of more formal written language (it's an archaic negative).

Hey everyone, having trouble understanding this sentence:
このブジツケな女は「茜」といってだな、この俺様にまとわりつく便所バエだ。

The translation says: On the surface you're just a rude woman who calls herself kanomi. But I know the truth about you. You're a fly who likes buzzing around piles of shit.

I realize that translation is very loose, but I'm still not getting it. Particularly the この俺様にまとわりつく便所バエだ。part.

Thanks

sparky14 Wrote:Hey everyone, having trouble understanding this sentence:
このブジツケな女は「茜」といってだな、この俺様にまとわりつく便所バエだ。

The translation says: On the surface you're just a rude woman who calls herself kanomi. But I know the truth about you. You're a fly who likes buzzing around piles of shit.

I realize that translation is very loose, but I'm still not getting it. Particularly the この俺様にまとわりつく便所バエだ。part.

Thanks

As I interpret it:
この俺様にまとわりつく [Follows me around]
which modifies
便所バエだ。[bathroom fly]

That's what I thought, but the translation makes it seem as if she's following the "shit" around. Guess it's not a very good translation. Thanks

It depends on how you define a good translation. A translation is always a balancing act between sounding natural and sounding accurate. I personally tend to fall on the disregard the actual grammar, and go for what sound natural approach, when translating for people. But as far as learning, or for myself, I try to avoid it or go with the hyper literal approach. It looks like this is prob. from an anime or game, and the translator was going for something that sounds more natural in English than "This rude woman called Kanomi, the bathroom fly coiling around me"

Inny Jan Wrote:

comeauch Wrote:The "instead" translation is just a translation, but it makes sense because:
"We didn't go to the movies, we went shopping..." is just begging for a "instead" in English.

Also, "instead" can be incorrect translation for other instances of -(a)zu ni, for example:
声を出さずに笑った
何も言わずに去った

... and one from the not-so-distant news:
種子島に実際に行って見ようと思っていたが見られず帰ってきた。波ながらにね。

Is that 見られずに帰ってきた? (EDIT: Hmm, I google searched and the transcript came up without the に, but that doesn't seem right to me.)

yudantaiteki Wrote:Is that 見られずに帰ってきた? (EDIT: Hmm, I google searched and the transcript came up without the に, but that doesn't seem right to me.)

I can't hear に in the audio either...

(They seem to have removed the original clip from youtube, unfortunately.)

見られず can work without に because it's the adverbial form on its own.

I know that it's grammatically correct, I'm just surprised to see it here instead of the ずに form. 見ないで帰ってきた seems to fit there better than 見なくて帰ってきた. But maybe native speakers feel differently.

バリバリ露出しちゃってるほうがいいよね (talking about clothes)

Can someone help with this? What バリバリ does in here? A ripped, revealing clothes?

And...

信じられないって顔すんのも当然ちゃー当然なんだけど

What grammar takes place in 当然ちゃー当然?

Thanks.

CK_Byuu Wrote:バリバリ露出しちゃってるほうがいいよね (talking about clothes)

Can someone help with this? What バリバリ does in here? A ripped, revealing clothes?

This バリバリ is just strengthening the phrase. I'm not sure what a direct English equivalent would be, but it's like saying that if you're going to show skin then it's better to go all out instead of just kind of half-arsedly showing a little.

CK_Byuu Wrote:信じられないって顔すんのも当然ちゃー当然なんだけど

What grammar takes place in 当然ちゃー当然?

当然といえば当然

Referring to CK_Byuu's second sentence, what the heck is すんのも？

sparky14 Wrote:Referring to CK_Byuu's second sentence, what the heck is すんのも？

するのも→すんのも

EDIT: Hint- Try saying "するのも" several times really fast!

yudantaiteki Wrote:I know that it's grammatically correct, I'm just surprised to see it here instead of the ずに form. 見ないで帰ってきた seems to fit there better than 見なくて帰ってきた. But maybe native speakers feel differently.

見ず is used for the meaning of 見ないで as well. I don't know if it's just practical or not.

drdunlap Wrote:

CK_Byuu Wrote:バリバリ露出しちゃってるほうがいいよね (talking about clothes)

Can someone help with this? What バリバリ does in here? A ripped, revealing clothes?

This バリバリ is just strengthening the phrase. I'm not sure what a direct English equivalent would be, but it's like saying that if you're going to show skin then it's better to go all out instead of just kind of half-arsedly showing a little.

CK_Byuu Wrote:信じられないって顔すんのも当然ちゃー当然なんだけど

What grammar takes place in 当然ちゃー当然?

当然といえば当然

Thanks for the help!

Even with all the explanation, I still can't understand CK_Byuu's second sentence (信じられないって顔すんのも当然ちゃー当然なんだけど). Can someone break that down? Sorry, I'm just curious now!

sparky14 Wrote:信じられないって顔すんのも当然ちゃー当然なんだけど

信じられない = 信じる -> 信じられる (potential/passive) -> 信じられない (negative)
"Unable to believe" or "subjected to disbelief" (same meaning) -> "I can't believe it"

信じられないって -> "I can't believe it" (quoting) -> 'Saying X' or 'X, so to speak'.

...+顔 -> A face that says "I can't believe it" (i.e. a facial expression).

...+すん (する) -> Doing a face that says "I can't believe it" (i.e. making a facial expression).

...+の (nominaliser) -> The thing of doing a face that says "I can't believe it"

...+も -> 'As much as ...', or 'even ...' (adds emphasis)

...+当然ちゃー当然 (当然と言えば当然 courtesy of drdunlap, 勉強になりました!) -> lit: "If one says natural, natural" -> trans: As natural as can be.

... + なんだ -> contraction of なのだ, where の is standing in for 物 or 事 -> lit: X is such a thing, "it is certainly the case that ..." (adds emphasis/confidence)

... + けど -> like 'X, though' in English. Softens the preceding statement a bit.

Possible (crude) translations in the absence of context:
An expression of disbelief is only natural (in the circumstances), though.
It's only natural that he should make an expression of disbelief, though.

Or something. HTH

PS: I am still a bit noobish so it's possible some of that is slightly off - corrections welcome