headphone_child Wrote:It feels like "you're selfish" doesn't really fit that interpretation, but maybe it's something like "you are selfish (but that's ok)" as opposed to "grr you're so selfish". Of course also it's possible that this person's interpretation isn't correct...

This sort of mismatch is expected in a literal translation. Positive / negative nuance of a word and its literal translation is one of the things that varies the most between languages, and it is an art to preserve those aspects of a translation that you feel are important for the material you are handling. If the only question you have left is about the usage and meaning of that particular word, then I feel that a dictionary would help you further at this point.

Mushi Wrote:This sort of mismatch is expected in a literal translation. Positive / negative nuance of a word and its literal translation is one of the things that varies the most between languages, and it is an art to preserve those aspects of a translation that you feel are important for the material you are handling.

Yeah, that is a good point. In this case I'm not going for a poignant translation or anything though; just want to understand it for myself.

Quote:If the only question you have left is about the usage and meaning of that particular word, then I feel that a dictionary would help you further at this point.

I'd say my confusion is more with the usage of Xの分 rather than 我儘. I've seen Xの分 used to mean someone's share, anywhere from one's share of responsibility to one's share of a meal bill. But the usage here doesn't seem as simple as those examples, and I have difficulty finding similar examples since 「の分」 is such a common expression. Anyway, thanks for the help. Gave me some stuff to think about.

I feel that the usage here may be similar to this definition in Daijirin:

分け与えられたもの。わけまえ。わりあて。

我儘はあなたの分だよ
我慢したあなたの分だよ

In a sense I feel it's saying that selfishness is "your share" because you've been 我慢-ing all this time.

What would this mean? From a TV show:

彼氏１人じゃヤダヤダ女

Marumaru Wrote:What would this mean? From a TV show:

彼氏１人じゃヤダヤダ女

LOL (at the content). ヤダ=嫌だ

The ヤダ part was clear though, but I got it finally, じゃ = では. A woman that is ヤダヤダ of (only) 1 boyfriend.

EDIT: Thank you btw

Saw this sentence in an N1 vocab book:
事故による負傷者が出なかったことが、せめてもの救いだ

Anyone know what's going on with the もの in せめてもの救いだ? I assume they are the particles も and の as usual, but it's confusing to me that they are used this way with せめて, which I see listed as an adverb. Am I just blanking on something obvious?

せめてもの救い = consolation

Marumaru Wrote:せめてもの救い = consolation

I should have phrased my question better. I know the meaning of the whole sentence and of the part in question (it seems like a very common phrase); I'm more wondering about the grammar. Rikaichan even gives a separate entry for せめてもの.

Oh, well then. According to Weblio せめてもの means minimal/sole, that's enough for me.

so I'm studying and come across this sentence:
誰にでも相応の生活というものがある。
and it means generally "Everyone should live within their means."

now I recall hearing years ago about how there is a usage of もの here that implies how something should be a rule...but that's basically all I remember. And I also recall there being a similar way of using こと that has a slightly different meaning. Never found either in my grammar books.

Could someone very kindly either explain what's going on here or point me to an explanation? Thanks much,

i don't think there's that much of a nuance between the two. they're just different?
I don't think it has the nuance of "how something should be a rule" for that sentence. isn't is just #1 from yahoo dic 何かの事柄・物事。「―の役に立つ」「―を思う」「恋という―」 or maybe this ２ 人間が考えることのできる形のない対象。

I got this from googling about mono and koto
。「もの」は具体的な物体を示すこともできますが、「こと」ではできません。意味に広がりがあるという指摘は、「もの」は具体的な物でも抽象的な概念でも、どちらでも使えるということだと思います。

i think you shouldn't really worry about this.

thanks, ya that basically says that もの and こと can both be like a thing, but not necessarily a physical thing... and I get that but I think there is also one of those pseudo-grammar points here...

like how ところ can be an adjectival point as well as a place, kind of weird grammar point/alternative meta-meaning.

僕も最近興味を持ちまして

I am trying to come up with a plain form to say this, what about 興味を持ちあって？ Is that equivalent to まして？

Marumaru Wrote:僕も最近興味を持ちまして

I am trying to come up with a plain form to say this, what about 興味を持ちあって？ Is that equivalent to まして？

僕も最近興味を持って

(Edit: 持ちまして is just the て form of the ます form of 持つ: 持ちます. Usually you only use the て form of ます form in very polite/formal situations--which is why beginners textbooks don't talk about it. The て form of 持つ is 持って)

Another roll, what's the grammar here: 分かろうともしない?

EDIT: Thanks @Tzadeck, I never had the joy of reading a beginner textbook though

Fillanzea Wrote:I feel that the usage here may be similar to this definition in Daijirin:

分け与えられたもの。わけまえ。わりあて。

我儘はあなたの分だよ
我慢したあなたの分だよ

In a sense I feel it's saying that selfishness is "your share" because you've been 我慢-ing all this time.

Makes sense. Thanks for sharing.

Marumaru Wrote:Another roll, what's the grammar here: 分かろうともしない?

EDIT: Thanks @Tzadeck, I never had the joy of reading a beginner textbook though

volitional + とする (http://www.guidetojapanese.org/try.html#part3) and も for emphasis.

分かろうとする = "try to understand"
分かろうとしない = "don't try to understand"
分かろうともしない = "don't even try to understand"

@Marumaru:

Talking about the ～まして form, what might appear in a beginner's textbook might be どういたしまして ("You're welcome") as a fixed phrase

＠Tori-kun あっ！ホントだ！
＠headphone_child　なるほど、その「も」ちょっとめんどくせえ！ありがとう。

One more

Here 社会問題を問うてるわけじゃない!! and その家族の未来を問うてるんだ!!

What is 問うてる, it's not a conjugation of 問う according to rikaichan nor my dictionaries. But I suspect it is (else what is it?)?

問う is one of a small number of verbs (including 請う and maybe others) that have an irregular -te form; 問うて instead of 問って as you would expect.

I see. (Stupid dictionary that doesn't tell you that.)

yudantaiteki Wrote:問う is one of a small number of verbs (including 請う and maybe others) that have an irregular -te form; 問うて instead of 問って as you would expect.

This seems to be a holdover from an old sound change in the 連用形 form (the form that modifies verbs in adjectives and that て and た attach to in verbs). We can also see this sound change in expressions like ありがとうございました and おめでとうございます (without the sound change, it would be たく, like in ありがたく思います)

Also in Edo-period forms like 思ふて and 給ふて (which was pronounced たもうて).

「わたしはあえて自分の気持ちとは異なる答えを選んだ。」

The question here is regarding あえて which I believe is "to dare" or some form depending on the translation. But the girl in question is choosing an answer different from her true feelings? How would you guys translate this personally?

TheVinster Wrote:「わたしはあえて自分の気持ちとは異なる答えを選んだ。」

The question here is regarding あえて which I believe is "to dare" or some form depending on the translation. But the girl in question is choosing an answer different from her true feelings? How would you guys translate this personally?

At times like this it usually pays to check a j-j dictionary, because despite what Rikai-chan says it actually has nothing to do with daring or any kind of emotion. (though I can imagine its often used in a way that implies boldness)

http://dic.yahoo.co.jp Wrote:１ やりにくいことを押しきってするさま。無理に。「言いにくいことを―言おう」

It's just about doing something despite the difficulties it presents, even if it's actually the easiest option. In the case of your example I'd translate it as "forced". I.e.

I forced myself to choose an answer that differed from my feelings.