Hi!

I found this sentence in DoIJG:

この問題は時期が来れば自然に解決されるものと見られている。
This problem is expected to solve itself when the time comes.

Would somebody please be so kind to explain the meaning and usage of と見る?

Thank you.

gombost Wrote:この問題は時期が来れば自然に解決されるものと見られている。
This problem is expected to solve itself when the time comes.

That 見る is passive so literally 「。。。と見られている」 is like '(People) see it as... ' or more naturally '(People) regard it as...'
It's definition 7: http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF-8...x=04247600

笑顔……だけど何か寂しげな影が見える。

Is it 寂し with 気 as a suffix?

Yes, it's this suffix:
http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF-8...x=01263300

It's really no different from 寂しい in most respects (well except for turning into a な adjective), it just explicitly makes it a judgement based on outward appearance and manner.

McKern Wrote:Ah, I see, but I thought I could express the same idea with just よい結果を得たい方

EDIT: What's wrong with just よい結果を得たい方?

What's wrong with よい結果を得たいという方？

It's very hard to answer these kinds of questions, even for native speakers -- as long as you understand that it means "People who say they want..." it's not necessarily productive to ask why the writer put the という in there. You might have to ask that person. Usually you do not use たい forms by themselves referring to third persons, that could be the reason.

CloverJoker Wrote:笑顔……だけど何か寂しげな影が見える。

Is it 寂し with 気 as a suffix?

It's similar to the ~そう suffix used for appearances (eg. 美味しそう、高そう) except げ tends to be used more with people and emotions and that sort of thing.　You won't see 美味しげなケーキ for example. And you can't use it with verbs eg. 雨が降りそうな空 can't become 雨が降りげな空.

>>yudantaiteki That's fair enough. Thank you!

Is there any difference between 教え and 訓え at all? [both are read as おしえ]

I can't find a dictionary entry of the latter in the J-J dictionaries I use...

I have never seen 訓え before, that's the difference.

yudantaiteki Wrote:I have never seen 訓え before, that's the difference.

Agreed. I've only even seen it used within words egs 訓読み, 訓練

yudantaiteki Wrote:I have never seen 訓え before, that's the difference.

It was in the Death Note subs, so it might've been a waapuro mistake :p
...well, it was when Light had to translate something from what seems to be the Bible...

Motivated by all the results of JLPT 2012 users posted here on the forums I decided to restart reading 告白 although it feels like it is far beyond my level in terms of grammar.

These two sentences follow practically each other and perhaps someone who knows the story or has even read the novel could help me understanding the sentences. The problem is definitely the lenght and the grammatical construction (especially だけで is giving me a hard time I feel). Feel free to correct my miserable English, too.


1. ご大層な名前を付けられたこの事件は、犯人が未成年ということで大げさに取沙汰されただけで、肝心な真相は何もわからないまま、風化してしまいました。
This case, which was given a very extravagant name [ルナシー事件], faded away unfortunately, without understanding the essential truth behind it, just because it was exaggeratedly rumoured the culprit of this crime was not of age.


2. この事件の報道は一部の子供の心の闇に、ルナシーという人間味をまったく感じさせない猟奇的犯罪者の存在を植えつけただけ、愚かな犯罪者を祟拝する哀れな子どもたちを煽っただけ、なのではないでしょうか。私は、未成年だからといって、顔写真も名前も公表しないのなら、犯人が調子にのってつけた名前も公表しなければいいと思います。
This way of reporting about the accident implanted an image/existance of a curiosity seeking criminal [a criminal commiting crimes out of sheer curiosity] not making them feel at all the human weekness of "ルナシー" into the darkness of a heart of a part/few of children ???

Stian Wrote:

yudantaiteki Wrote:I have never seen 訓え before, that's the difference.

It was in the Death Note subs, so it might've been a waapuro mistake :p
...well, it was when Light had to translate something from what seems to be the Bible...

When I made a quick google search for 訓え they were mostly related to the "teachings" of religion, so it probably wasn't a mistake.

Tori-kun Wrote:1. ご大層な名前を付けられたこの事件は、犯人が未成年ということで大げさに取沙汰されただけで、肝心な真相は何もわからないまま、風化してしまいました。
This case, which was given a very extravagant name [ルナシー事件], faded away unfortunately, without understanding the essential truth behind it, just because it was exaggeratedly rumoured the culprit of this crime was not of age.

You're close. But the だけで means that the gossip about the criminal being a minor is the only thing that happened (and the truth was never revealed); there's no causal relationship there though. So it's not that the truth faded away because rumors about the criminal being a minor were going around.

Tori-kun Wrote:2. この事件の報道は一部の子供の心の闇に、ルナシーという人間味をまったく感じさせない猟奇的犯罪者の存在を植えつけただけ、愚かな犯罪者を崇拝する哀れな子どもたちを煽っただけ、なのではないでしょうか。私は、未成年だからといって、顔写真も名前も公表しないのなら、犯人が調子にのってつけた名前も公表しなければいいと思います。
This way of reporting about the accident implanted an image/existance of a curiosity seeking criminal [a criminal commiting crimes out of sheer curiosity] not making them feel at all the human weekness of "ルナシー" into the darkness of a heart of a part/few of children ???

This took me a while to figure out, so you might want a second opinion on this. But here's what I got:

The way this incident was reported did nothing but (だけ) plant the existence of a "curiosity seeking criminal" that doesn't notice the human weakness called "lunacy" into the darkness in the hearts of some children. It only (だけ) stirred up the pitiable children that worship this foolish criminal. Although I am a minor, I believe that if they wouldn't reveal the criminal's portrait or name, then they shouldn't have revealed the name the criminal adopted to show off.

headphone_child Wrote:

Tori-kun Wrote:2. この事件の報道は一部の子供の心の闇に、ルナシーという人間味をまったく感じさせない猟奇的犯罪者の存在を植えつけただけ、愚かな犯罪者を崇拝する哀れな子どもたちを煽っただけ、なのではないでしょうか。私は、未成年だからといって、顔写真も名前も公表しないのなら、犯人が調子にのってつけた名前も公表しなければいいと思います。
This way of reporting about the accident implanted an image/existance of a curiosity seeking criminal [a criminal commiting crimes out of sheer curiosity] not making them feel at all the human weekness of "ルナシー" into the darkness of a heart of a part/few of children ???

This took me a while to figure out, so you might want a second opinion on this. But here's what I got:

The way this incident was reported did nothing but (だけ) plant the existence of a "curiosity seeking criminal" that doesn't notice the human weakness called "lunacy" into the darkness in the hearts of some children. It only (だけ) stirred up the pitiable children that worship this foolish criminal. Although I am a minor, I believe that if they wouldn't reveal the criminal's portrait or name, then they shouldn't have revealed the name the criminal adopted to show off.

I also found this difficult, and it's currently 2 in the morning, but my interpretation was quite different.

この事件の報道は一部の子供の心の闇に、ルナシーという人間味をまったく感じさせない猟奇的犯罪者の存在を植えつけただけ、愚かな犯罪者を崇拝する哀れな子どもたちを煽っただけ、なのではないでしょうか。

The reporting of this case planted the existence of the inhuman criminal known as "Lunacy" in the darkness that exists in some children's hearts, and only served to excite those pitiful children who worship these foolish criminals.

Some things that may be worth noting:

I'm pretty sure that "ルナシーという人間味をまったく感じさせない猟奇的" is a descriptive clause modifying the noun "犯罪者".

The use of させない in "人間味をまったく感じさせない" makes me think that it's saying that Lunacy doesn't make you feel as if he's human. i.e. Lunacy is inhuman.

I couldn't be bothered to tr and get 猟奇的 in to the translation, but it should be pretty obvious what 猟奇的犯罪者 means.

私は、未成年だからといって、顔写真も名前も公表しないのなら、犯人が調子にのってつけた名前も公表しなければいいと思います。

I think that if your not going to publicise a criminal's name or photo because they are a minor, then you should also refrain from publicising their proclamations and self styled nicknames.

Although grammatically 未成年だからといって could just as easily apply to 私は, I think in this context it makes more sense to link it to 顔写真も名前も公表しないのなら.

Stian Wrote:Is there any difference between 教え and 訓え at all? [both are read as おしえ]

I can't find a dictionary entry of the latter in the J-J dictionaries I use...

My kanji dictionary (漢辞海) does list おしえ under 訓

It lists a definition of いましめ and おし-え (presumably 訓 can be used with that reading, however it's uncommon) with 家訓 and 遺訓 as example words conveying the character's meaning in those cases.

What does ゆく mean in this sentence: と受け継
がれゆく意志

It means the same thing as いく (it's an alternate reading for 行く)。
The only difference is that ゆく sounds more poetic, and it's often used in for example songs for this reason.

So, just read it as と受け継がれいく意志.

@Splatted & headphone_child

Thank you for pointing out my mistakes. I think I mistook だけで＝だけなので which was kind of twisting up the whole sentence due to casuality brought up by the で.... So, the first sentence looks kind of simple to me now

I will have to look at the second one again and will reply after having had lunch T-T Do such sentences appear in the N2 reading section? I'm a bit worried.

In a children's novel I'm reading, the narrator is frustrated with another girl, who is going out of her way to seduce the narrator's brother. However, after an exchange of words, she's relieved to learn that the girl doesn't intend to push things too far. Then she narrates:
さっきのブリッコぶりを帳消しにして、おつりがくるぐらいだ。
I think the first part of the sentence refers to forgiving the seduction act, but despite knowing the words I don't get the second part at all. A monolingual dictionary gives me 十分過ぎてあまりが出る。「マイナス面を差し引いても―来るほどの価値」 as definition for 御釣りが来る but I unfortunately I can't make sense of that either. Could someone enlighten me?

Another one: a character is outraged at a course of action suggested by another character, and says:
そんな恥ずかしいこと、死んだってやらない。
I guessed it probably means something like "I'd rather die than doing such an embarrassing thing". Am I right, and why (not)?

Savii Wrote:Another one: a character is outraged at a course of action suggested by another character, and says:
そんな恥ずかしいこと、死んだってやらない。
I guessed it probably means something like "I'd rather die than doing such an embarrassing thing". Am I right, and why (not)?

You got the meaning right. 死んだって - だって is colloquial version of でも (たって -> ても), so it's 死んでも.

Your first question - my guess is that something good came because of all that mess - in the sense that she is now better off. Maybe she understands something better now, or she got some other benefit - some added bonus came with tackling this problem (that's why おつりが来るぐらい - you thought it will leave you worse off, but you even got some change in the end).

What is the meaning of:
忘れてたまるもんかよ!!

part of the lyrics of a song:
http://mojim.com/twy108196x2x1.htm

Marumaru Wrote:What is the meaning of:
忘れてたまるもんかよ!!

part of the lyrics of a song:
http://mojim.com/twy108196x2x1.htm

It means something like "I'll be damned if I forget!" or more simply "I won't forget!".
Basically, ～てたまるか, ～てたまるものか, or in this case ～てたまるもんか is a construction that shows you would never let something happen.

Ah, this たまる is 'to bear; endure' and that construction is the monoka that is sarcastic or something (I remember having read somewhere zillions ago). Well, this construction was new to me, thanks!

[s0apgun]

Hi minna-san,

Could you help me translate this address to English so I can send this guy some stickers from America to Japan? Or give me some advice on how to do this... maybe I can print this address with JAPAN written below it?

my address↓
000-000
兵庫県神戸市垂水区名谷町字垣之内0000-0スカイヒル名谷000

*edited the numbers and took his name out*

Edit 2: Thanks so much for the replies!