[Zgarbas]

This is more of a general question than a specific thing. I wrote a sentence a while ago "君さえが出来るはずだ"、and got the comment that when using さえ the が particle is no longer necessary. Why is that?

That's just the way さえ works, like も or が itself. I'm not sure how better to answer "why" than that.

When I saw this, I was initially quite confused. Then, when I read it carefully and realized that there were two particles stuck together there, I was thinking:

"Which is it you want to say, 君さえ出来る or 君が出来る? Pick one!"

From http://eow.alc.co.jp/search/example?q=ある...dk=JE&pg=1:

（保証人とは、あなた（賃借人）が家主（賃貸人）に家賃を払えなくなったり、約束を守れなかったりしたときに（あなたの代わりに）支払いや約束を履行すると家主に保証する人のことである。）
A guarantor is a person who guarantees to the landlord that they will pay or fulfill the agreement made with the landlord when you （the lessee） can no longer pay the rent to the landlord （the lessor） or you can no longer live up to your end of the agreement.

I am not sure how is that と working syntactically, I feel like I'm just about to get it, but I still can't figure it out.

EDIT: Mmmm suddenly… it feels like the quoting と, but why is it so weird to me?.

It's quotative. Xと保証する. "guarantee X" or "guarantee that X."

I knew it, but I still don't quite "get" it.

What about 支払いや約束を履行するのは家主に保証する人のことである。?

Would that be an equivalent? and if not, what's the difference?

delta Wrote:I knew it, but I still don't quite "get" it.

What about 支払いや約束を履行するのは家主に保証する人のことである。?

Would that be an equivalent? and if not, what's the difference?

In my mind, it's a little different. I think the sentence you made is a little weird, but if I were to ignore the content and just parse the grammar it would look like this:

（支払いや約束を履行するの）は（（家主に保証する人）のこと）である。

（（（支払いや約束を履行する）と家主に保証する人）のこと）である。


Your original sentence would look something like this (with some parens left out for clarity):

（保証人）とは、（（あなたが家主に家賃を払えなくなったり、約束を守れなかったりした）とき）に（（（支払いや約束を履行する）と家主に保証する）人のこと））である。

I didn't include the 〜ときに phrase in with the 人のこと part, but I probably should have. There were already too many parens. (Coloring the parens would have probably made this easier to understand).


Also, changing the sentence you made to this might make it work?

支払いや約束を履行するのは家主に保証する人である。

@partner55083777
What's with that と next to 家主? In my 'parser' the と can only be next to the previous clause (支払いや約束を履行する). I missing something here (probably) or you are running a different (non-orthodox) 'parser'.

Here's adding a couple more parens (it's starting to get confusing):

（（（（支払いや約束を履行する）と）（（家主）に）保証する）人）のこと）である。

You could also write it like this, I think:

（（（（支払いや約束を履行する）と）保証する）人）のこと）である。

Or like this?:

（（（家主に）（支払いや約束を履行すると）保証する）人）のこと）である。

The "家主に" and "...履行すると" are both modifying 保証する. The "...履行すると" is not modifying 家主.

It's the same kind of structure as "〇〇と彼に言った。"

（〇〇と）（彼に）言った。

わ〜　Thanks man!

But… if you still have some more time, see that my original question = "what's the difference?" (and nothing else). I see you are trying to help, but I already know who's modifying who in here. Both of my sentences are grammatical, but my question is how is my sentence different from the original.

I usually don't play the "what's the difference" game because it's way too prone to mistakes and overgeneralizations (even by native speakers). "What's the difference" is a very dangerous question to ask and your understanding of a particular sentence should never (IMO) be based on how it's different from another sentence with one thing changed.

However, as soon as you see the とは in the first phrase, there has to be some ending phrase like のことだ or ということだ for it to connect to. In this case the structure of the whole sentence is just XとはYである, with Y being 人のこと modified by a huge clause. If you change the と to のは, it messes that structure up and throws off the "X means Y" basic pattern. In particular, the 保証する loses the specification of *what* is being guaranteed, and it ends up with something like "The one who pays if you cannot fulfill your obligations is the one that guarantees (something) to the landlord" which is a little bit nonsensical. I don't think のは there is grammatical.

This may have been clarified, but with an X + quotative と + verb Y, the と has to go immediately after the quote X, but stuff can come between the と and the verb. A simple example is はいと先生に言った (I said "yes" to the teacher). Of course you can have 先生にはいと言った also. In this case too, you could put the 家主に at the beginning after the とは, but because the quote part is so long, there may be a tendency to put it at the end instead.

EDIT: I think if it's のが instead of のは it's at least grammatical although the resulting sentence is still somewhat nonsensical.

Thanks @yudantaiteki and @partner55083777.

Hi guys,

So I've just started reading ゼロの使い魔 and was already taken aback by the first sentence (at least the beginning): "抜けるような青空をバックに"
What bugs me here is the use of 抜ける. None of the translations given by Rikaichan seems to fit the bill. I googled the sentence and found it in the Wikipedia article about Bob Dylan's album "Nashville Skyline". It is used to describe the CD cover so I had a look at it and I think I get the idea but 抜ける still bugs me. Is it some kind of way to express the concept of low angle view in this context ?

Many thanks for your help !

第十二地区に戻ってそんなことをするよりはましだ。

So this is まし right? Indicating that returning to district 12 was more preferable than the event that could've otherwise transpired?

それをはねつけるのはそろそろやめなくては。

It ends with やめなくては but why would a sentence ever end like this?

solal Wrote:Hi guys,

So I've just started reading ゼロの使い魔 and was already taken aback by the first sentence (at least the beginning): "抜けるような青空をバックに"
What bugs me here is the use of 抜ける. None of the translations given by Rikaichan seems to fit the bill. I googled the sentence and found it in the Wikipedia article about Bob Dylan's album "Nashville Skyline". It is used to describe the CD cover so I had a look at it and I think I get the idea but 抜ける still bugs me. Is it some kind of way to express the concept of low angle view in this context ?

Many thanks for your help !

I wasn't sure at first but I've done a bit of research. Looking at alc and goo the English translation tends to be a 'bright blue sky' / 'pure blue sky' / 'crystal blue sky' etc.

But looking at some Japanese definitions...

ぬ・ける【抜ける】
隔てがなくなり、どこまでも続いている。透き通っている。「―・けるような青空」

and

抜けるような青空
どこまでも果てがないような透き通った青色の空を形容する表現。

it looks like there's also a sense of it stretching on forever.

Perhaps a poetic translation would be like "A vast, crystal blue sky, seeming to stretch endlessly in every direction".... or something, I don't know lol.

Sorry to interrupt the above crystal blue sky...

"なんか名前だけ呼ばれているけど、どうかした？？"

Can you help me with the meaning of this?
Thank you!

TheVinster Wrote:第十二地区に戻ってそんなことをするよりはましだ。

So this is まし right? Indicating that returning to district 12 was more preferable than the event that could've otherwise transpired?

Well, I'd break it up like so:

第十二地区に戻ってそんなことをする よりはましだ。

The latter clause acts on the entire former one. So, something is better than 第十二地区に戻ってそんなことをする. What that would be, we can't tell without context, but we could write it like this for clarity:

（ 　）は　第十二地区に戻ってそんなことをする よりはましだ。

Quote:それをはねつけるのはそろそろやめなくては。

It ends with やめなくては but why would a sentence ever end like this?

It's the same thing as やめなくてはならない, but the last part is dropped. Like やめなくちゃ without the contraction, if you will. Essentially, it still ends with a verb, it's just omitted.
(X)はそろそろやめなくては becomes　"It's about time I stopped doing X".

mizunooto Wrote:"なんか名前だけ呼ばれているけど、どうかした？？"

Can you help me with the meaning of this?
Thank you!

I'd ask for some more context.

mizunooto Wrote:"なんか名前だけ呼ばれているけど、どうかした？？"

I know it's a short sentence, but can you be a little bit more specific about which part is giving you trouble? The punctuation? The vocabulary? The grammar?

If it's possible follow-up responses you're wondering about, I kind of picture this dialogue continuing something like:

"しらねえ。ていうか、誰あのおっさん。"

mizunooto Wrote:Sorry to interrupt the above crystal blue sky...

"なんか名前だけ呼ばれているけど、どうかした？？"

Can you help me with the meaning of this?
Thank you!

(Hey!) but (if) it was only your named (which was) called, what's wrong?? (relax)

mizunooto Wrote:Sorry to interrupt the above crystal blue sky...

"なんか名前だけ呼ばれているけど、どうかした？？"

Can you help me with the meaning of this?
Thank you!

Context would help, to me it sounds something like "Seems like I heard my name called, what do you want?"

I am overwhelmed by the responses, great!

It is from an email and I have a feeling the New Year card attachment was not visible so the person only saw their name and nothing else.

Thanks mourei.

This is going to be the first time in this thread that I'll be *asking* a question!

This one is from near the beginning of Shin Sekai Yori (上). The passage is describing how a child withdrew from society and transformed into a monstrous "gouma":

少年は、自らの頭の良さを誇るあまり、あらゆるものを子馬鹿にしていたのだ。

Approximately, this would be, "The child, being excessively proud of his own intelligence, looked down on everyone around him."

The part that confuses me is "あまり". I typically use あまり sort of like an adverb, before an adjective to mean "too/excessively", such as when something is too hot. I also use forms of あまり to mean "remainder" the noun, or "remain", as a verb.

But in this case, it doesn't seem to be structured to refer to "excessive" pride or "remaining" pride, but appears to be being used as a conjunction. I'd guess something like "all the while", "as a consequence", or "proportionately".

Here's the entry from goo:
３ （感情などを表す連体修飾語を上に付けて副詞的に用いる）程度がはなはだしくて引き起こされた結果として。「うれしさの―に涙が出る」「案件の成立を急ぐ―委員会が混乱した」

So I think your "as a consequence [of his excessive pride]" seems good.

Alc has some good examples:
1人の老人が苦悩のあまり手を組み、あちこち走りまわりながら金切り声で助けを求めている。
and an old man, wringing his hands in agony, was running to and fro, shrieking for assistance

「せめてわたくしの考えが合っているのかどうかを。姉は恐怖のあまり亡くなったのですか？」
"You can at least tell me whether my own thought is correct, and if she died from some sudden fright."〔【出典】英文："The Adventure of the Speckled Band" by Arthur Conan Doyle、訳者：大久保ゆう〕

「政治的殺害の目撃者の多くは、たとえそれが被害者の近しい親族であっても、恐怖のあまり届け出ることができない。
"Many witnesses to political killings -- even close relatives of the victims -- are simply too frightened to come forward.

Thanks Yudantaiteki, for those great examples - that makes it clear. The nice thing about having the book on Kindle was that I could search for all instances of あまり in it. But of the dozens of hits, only that particular one was a conjunction!