imabi Wrote:

Taishi Wrote:I'll do my best to explain the particles in this specific situation.

imabi Wrote:I really don't think that most valid explanations are that far off from each other. Brevity in this case does cause for fallacies and misinterpretations to be had, but it does come down to just thinking like a Japanese person, but even that is not a 100% guarantee. Ya, I agree that longer explanations are much better. Course, if you're just talking about certain instances, I think it shouldn't be that hard just to get a simple and reasonable explanation.

I agree that longer explanations are good, but I think it's a good idea to supplement with shorter explanations for specific cases as well.

Lol, that's exactly what I said in the last line. Just making sure you understand me.

I meant that several smaller explanations of smaller instances should make the big picture clearer (after the groundwork has been laid out by the longer one). It was unclear if you meant that way, or just as an explanation strictly for that instance. Maybe I was just reading too much into it, all in all, I think we agree.

Yes, I do. It's something that I tried to do in my lesson on ga vs. wa. Both sections have a main beginning, but there are still smaller more specific explanations with examples that follow.

http://www.imabi.net/lesson9.htm

Hi!

I found the following sentence in my dictionary:

先日の約束をお忘れなく。(Don't forget what you promised the other day.)

How「お忘れなく」 is used here? From the English sentence and the お- prefix I suppose it's a polite negative request but I haven't seen this usage of the adverbial form of a negative verb yet. Is it a less polite and shorter version of 「お忘れないでください」or「お忘れにならないでください」? Are there any reference in the DoJG series?

Thanks!

@imabi Thanks, I read the lesson. I like it better than most others I've read about は and が, but it still feels like the kind of thing that truly makes sense when you already know the topic pretty well.

I think the problem I have is not は or が but grasping the idea of topic / subject well. Even though I have read quite a bit I still don't get it in profundity.

Here are some questions:

1. What other languages express topic like or similar to Japanese?

2. How does a language presumably develop these features? and why isn't the topic a feature in English (or is it)?

4. Could Japanese have evolved without a topic marker? or is it a necessary feature because of the way the language works as a whole?

5. As far as I am concerned が has been traditionally explained as having different roles: subject marker, contrasting particle, but/however conjunction, uncertainty at the end of sentence, exceptions?, etc.,. Why is this? Is it possible that が only has one true definition, albeit a more abstract one, if so, what is it?

gombost Wrote:Hi!

I found the following sentence in my dictionary:

先日の約束をお忘れなく。(Don't forget what you promised the other day.)

How「お忘れなく」 is used here? From the English sentence and the お- prefix I suppose it's a polite negative request but I haven't seen this usage of the adverbial form of a negative verb yet. Is it a less polite and shorter version of 「お忘れないでください」or「お忘れにならないでください」? Are there any reference in the DoJG series?

Thanks!

It's a fixed form of request; it's not productive but only occurs in certain polite phrases. お構いなく is another example.

yudantaiteki Wrote:It's a fixed form of request; it's not productive but only occurs in certain polite phrases. お構いなく is another example.

Thank you for your answer!

Could you please tell me how polite it is? Which other forms of these phrases should be considered more polite?

In most cases they're set phrases that you usually don't replace with other versions. ご遠慮なく is another one -- I think it would be odd to say 遠慮しないでください or something like that in the circumstance.

yudantaiteki Wrote:In most cases they're set phrases that you usually don't replace with other versions. ご遠慮なく is another one -- I think it would be odd to say 遠慮しないでください or something like that in the circumstance.

Ah, okay, I didn't associate them with 遠慮なく. Now I get it, thank you very much!

delta Wrote:1. What other languages express topic like or similar to Japanese?

A good number of languages, including English, have topic-comment style sentences. English doesn't have them in the formal or written style, but in spoken language they're pretty common.

Examples:
"That new movie with Christian Bale -- what's it called?"
"The old house down on the corner, I heard it's getting renovated."

Topic marking is also done in other ways "As for Japanese, I don't find it that confusing" and since sometimes a topic and subject are equivalent, you don't always need a specific marker. Languages that have freer word order (i.e. Latin) often do topic by rearranging the word order in the sentence.

However, the most obvious languages that do topic in a similar way to Japanese are Korean and Chinese. It's kind of interesting that Chinese does it given that it has no other relation to Japanese (but like Japanese, topic marking goes back to the earliest written forms of the language that exist).

Quote:2. How does a language presumably develop these features?
4. Could Japanese have evolved without a topic marker?

These questions really can't be answered; languages have different ways of doing things and you can't always explain why that is. Also since our evidence of written Japanese only goes back to the 8th century or so (when は was already a topic marker), it's impossible to say for sure how or why it might have entered the language.

As for が, the current meanings did develop out of a smaller set (or one?) meaning but it doesn't really help understanding the current meaning. For particles you often just have to accept that they have multiple meanings that sometimes can only be related through complicated historical linguistics that aren't necessarily much help to a second-language learner.

I have a doubt about this sentence "銀行の残高が1万円を切れた"
I dunno which one of these would be the correct interpretation of it:
- The balance of the bank was cut by 10000 YEN.
- The balance of the bank was cut to 10000 YEN.
- The balance has surpassed/gone below 10000 YEN.

Can someone help me please? Thxx! <3

looks like a notice that a balance has gone below 1万. (Perhaps there's a minimum balance requirement?) One sense of 切れる　(and 切る)　is to go below [be less than] some set time or amount. [Can also be positive] (eg break a world record)
edits in []

I've also seen people use it describe their weight while they're on a diet

What is the difference between all those "somehow" words?
なんか・なんとか・なんだか・なんとなく

なんか is equivalent to など.

例：

宿題なんか要らないよ。

There are two meanings of なんだか。It depends on where it is. It may just be the same as 何であるか・何か as an embedded sentence.

When it is not being used that way, it is interchangeable with なんとなく・なぜか. Here's an example.

何だか変だね。
何だか妙だ。


なんとか（して）　＝　なんらかの方法で

なんとかしてそこへ辿（たど）り着きます。　＝　I'll get there somehow.

なんとかしてくれ！　≒　Do something about it!
なんとかなるさ。　≒　Things'll work out.

なんとなく, again, is about "vagueness" as far as reasoning is concerned.

僕はなんとなく悲しい。
なんとなく気になる。

Edit: I added a section for this to my site in Lesson 75 to help you. I included another expression that means "somehow" and realized which 何か you were talking about.

What does the と at the end mean here?
あなたがその夢に現れた森から使者だと？

It's from 「ゼルダの伝説　時のオカリナ」 (aka. Japanese OoT)
It's a question that Zelda asks Link if that helps, and it's a yes/no-question

In a question with a high intonation, it presents a demanding question. This is used in casual or vulgar speech. That's all.

Thank you for the quick answer.

Well, as you probably know, it's kinda hard to tell the intonation when the dialogues are text-only. :p:

It's implied. Final particles, which is what that would be called, almost all generally have a rising intonation. Some don't for certain instances, but questions naturally have a rise in pitch. This comes from a more literal interpretation of to as the citation particle. So, it makes perfect sense for this to be used in a yes-no fashion in a video game. After all, it's literal verifying in a rather highly casual way.

Some video games have sound...oh well. At least you also know how it would sound when used. Other examples include
何だと!？
WHAT!?

いやだと？
You say no!?

Hey everyone.
I can't seem to remember the Japanese name of those very long socks worn by girls.
Might someone help me? Thanks very much in advance.

Would it be ルーズソックス you're thinking of?

imabi Wrote:Would it be ルーズソックス you're thinking of?

That's when these huge socks are worn down on the ankles, no? Maybe they're just called ソックス, I had thought they had a word sounding like "geta" for it though, but I was probably wrong... Or maybe it was just 靴下 after all (but I doubted that)(lost my source document).
Thanks for the reply.

Well, they still are long socks. No?

Perhaps, but I would imagine socks being shorter for geta. I have a Japanese friend who wears geta to basically everywhere he goes and the socks aren't that long.

Calling socks 靴下 is definitely the safest bet if you're not sure on what a type of sock is called.

EratiK Wrote:I can't seem to remember the Japanese name of those very long socks worn by girls.
...
I had thought they had a word sounding like "geta" for it ...

I guess you're thinking about ニーソックス (knee socks), which has a corresponding fetish for the longest ones, over the knee (オーバーニー), called 絶対領域 (Zettai Ryouiki).

gdaxeman Wrote:

EratiK Wrote:I can't seem to remember the Japanese name of those very long socks worn by girls.

I guess you're thinking about ニーソックス (knee socks), which has a corresponding fetish for the longest ones, over the knee (オーバーニー), called 絶対領域 (Zettai Ryouiki).

Ah yes, ニーソックスさん, probably from an abbreviation of オーバーニーソックス... Not what I had in mind, but I guess that's it.
Looks like they're also called ニーハイソックス (above the knee).
タイハイソックス seems to denominate the stockings rather than the socks.
ハイソックス seems to be below the knee.
Thanks gdaxeman.

I'll just add that you often see ニーソックス abbreviated to ニーソ ^^