kudokupo Wrote:彼は3人兄弟です。 is translated as "he has two siblings", does that mean it's like "he is the third sibling" or something?

It's basically used the way in English we talk about the number of kids in a family. "He comes from a family with three kids."

Usually we only do this in English, at least in America, when we are talking about bigger families. "He comes from a huge family, 9 kids--Catholic!" Of course, he is included in the 9.

Lately I watched a lot of Detective Conan and tried to learn a few grammar points appearing in my JLPT N2 grammar book. I don't get the hang of this わけ thing.

ほんで警察が来た時にはダイイングメッセージが消えとったっちゅうわけやな？ （関西弁）
(not sure if my translation into 標準語 is correct here. Please can someone check that, too?)
= それで、警察が来た時にはダイイングメッセージが消えていたというわけだね（な）？
"So this means, at the time when the police came, the dying message had disappeared, right?"

Coming to the actual issue: isn't というわけ the same as ということ? I have the feeling that it got more often used in Detective Conan during the part where the deductions come and I get the feeling that it sounds more natural with わけ because it's their "natural/logic" deduction.. I'm never sure when to use which.

あんたなら事前に毒をバームクーヘン全体にかけることが出来たってわけですな？
"If it's you, you could have put the poison on the whole baumkuchen already beforehand, right?"

Can't tell how to translate わけ here..

第一　あのバカ息子が腹を空かせてたなんて知らねぇのにバームクーヘン全体に毒を振りかけるなんてことするわけねぇだろ？
"First, although not knowing that this stupid son was hungry, there is no way she/he would apply poison to the [whole] baumkuchen, hm?"

Again, can't tell how to translate わけ here..

On top, I have read somewhere that わけ＝はず in some contextes and I get really scared by that o_o

bats75 Wrote:理解あるような素振りで、結局は帰らせないということなのかな。まあ、もう少し話し合わないとダメですね。重大なことだしね。

Some of this has been said by partner55083777 already but maybe I can help further--it basically says:
"He/She had a manner as if he/she understood but I guess it means I won't be allowed to go home. Oh well, we need to talk a bit more. It's important."

More literally the first part is like "understanding like manner" 理解ある "with understanding" ような "like" 素振り is someone's "manner" or "disposition". Then you have "in the end, won't be allowed to go home" the ということなのかな is simple the person wondering if that'll be the case. ということ is basically saying what comes before is a conclusion, not necessarily fact. かな strengthens the fact they're unsure.
なの is emphasis and かな is like "I wonder" or "I guess". Translate how you wish.

Hope that helps a bit more.

Tori-kun Wrote:Lately I watched a lot of Detective Conan and tried to learn a few grammar points appearing in my JLPT N2 grammar book. I don't get the hang of this わけ thing.

ほんで警察が来た時にはダイイングメッセージが消えとったっちゅうわけやな？ （関西弁）
(not sure if my translation into 標準語 is correct here. Please can someone check that, too?)
= それで、警察が来た時にはダイイングメッセージが消えていたというわけだね（な）？
"So this means, at the time when the police came, the dying message had disappeared, right?"

Coming to the actual issue: isn't というわけ the same as ということ? I have the feeling that it got more often used in Detective Conan during the part where the deductions come and I get the feeling that it sounds more natural with わけ because it's their "natural/logic" deduction.. I'm never sure when to use which.

あんたなら事前に毒をバームクーヘン全体にかけることが出来たってわけですな？
"If it's you, you could have put the poison on the whole baumkuchen already beforehand, right?"

Can't tell how to translate わけ here..

第一　あのバカ息子が腹を空かせてたなんて知らねぇのにバームクーヘン全体に毒を振りかけるなんてことするわけねぇだろ？
"First, although not knowing that this stupid son was hungry, there is no way she/he would apply poison to the [whole] baumkuchen, hm?"

Again, can't tell how to translate わけ here..

On top, I have read somewhere that わけ＝はず in some contextes and I get really scared by that o_o

というわけ is basically stating something that seems obvious to the speaker, it's an explanation but one that everyone seems to already know. Maybe think of it as "That means..."
というわけか for example is the same but a question "You mean....?" The answer is really it's obvious to you and you're just asking for confirmation.

Let's say a woman hates her husband and everyone knows it, then one day she leaves him the neighbors and friends might say 我慢できなかったっていうわけだな because clearly she wasn't able to put up with his shit anymore and left. However, if it's 我慢できなかったっていうこと then it's more like they heard it from somewhere but haven't actually witnessed her not being there anymore. Maybe they got a phone call instead haha.

わけねぇ I think you already understand. Comes from わけがない and is basically saying "No way....!!!" "There's no way he'd do" that and you're right, it's basically the same as はず here. Try to remember わけがない as a set phrase instead of just わけ though.

Maybe someone can give you a better explanation but that's basically the gist of it. I hope it's somewhat helpful.

Just a general question I've been wondering about.

I've noticed there are some rules how kanji readings transform.

E.g.　設定. 設　せつ + 定 てい　become 設定 せってい.

Now I've been wondering if this applies to words like 開発 when used in a sentence with する or します. Would 開発する be かいはっする or simply かいはつする?

It's the second, かいはつする. Parts of words are often simplified when combined together, but those words should then retain their full pronunciation regardless of adjacent sounds. Of course, what people actually end up saying is another matter.

I just learned a usage of かける I didn't know:

あきらめかけた時に
When (you) are about to give up

I got this from a native speaker but could somebody elaborate a bit more?. I know ところ is also a way to say 'about to' but how do they differ?.

turvy Wrote:I just learned a usage of かける I didn't know:

あきらめかけた時に
When (you) are about to give up

I got this from a native speaker but could somebody elaborate a bit more?. I know ところ is also a way to say 'about to' but how do they differ?.

かける just means you're half way or in the middle of doing something. So the sentence you wrote out is like "when you're half way towards quitting"
ところ basically means "place" in both literal and non-literal terms, it's like "when you're in a place (mentally) close to quitting..."
At least that's how I see it.

Thanks, rikaikun, also has "begin (but not complete)" which I failed to see

@Crispy: Thank you
I have a question, though.

Quote:というわけか for example is the same but a question "You mean....?" The answer is really it's obvious to you and you're just asking for confirmation.

But take the following example sentence.
e.g. 噂が広まってるので秘密がバレたということですね。 Because the rumour spreads, it means the secret leaked.

What's the difference to "That means..." of というわけ？

I've been struggling to find a decent example sentence for 虚無, to toss in my deck.

The 明鏡国語辞典 has this fragment which I might be able to adapt enough but I'm not sure of the meaning really (passive/potential form still throws me).

「虚無感に襲われる」 - Not sure if its saying "able to attack/destroy with no feeling (nihilistically empty)" or maybe something like "destroyed by nothing (a feeling of nothingness)."

I'd say "attacked by a feeling of nothingness."

Tori-kun Wrote:@Crispy: Thank you
I have a question, though.

Quote:というわけか for example is the same but a question "You mean....?" The answer is really it's obvious to you and you're just asking for confirmation.

But take the following example sentence.
e.g. 噂が広まってるので秘密がバレたということですね。 Because the rumour spreads, it means the secret leaked.

What's the difference to "That means..." of というわけ？

I think わけ is more explicit. ということだ is a a conclusion that they've come to, "since the rumor spread the secret got leaked" if you used わけ instead it's not a conclusion, it's closer to fact. You'd be implying you know it to be true instead of just speculation.

I thought I would hop back on here and just update a prior question.

I had asked if 「彼は何しろ人の忠告を聞き捨てている。」 was ok. Well I bounced it off some actual Japanese ears and they said it was weird, usually for this kind of construction you'd say 「彼は何しろ人の忠告を聞き入れない。」

So back to the drawing board for a sentence.

vix86 Wrote:I thought I would hop back on here and just update a prior question.

I had asked if 「彼は何しろ人の忠告を聞き捨てている。」 was ok. Well I bounced it off some actual Japanese ears and they said it was weird, usually for this kind of construction you'd say 「彼は何しろ人の忠告を聞き入れない。」

So back to the drawing board for a sentence.

Were you looking for example sentences of 人の忠告を聞き捨てる？

A good example sentence for 聞き捨てる.

雨が降ったなら試合はなかったはずです。明日雨が降るなら試合はないでしょう

Why is the first one a legit use of nara, while the second isn't?

they're both legit.... from searching with quotes in google (ex "降ったなら") i get more hits for the first one actually. one is past and the other is future

Lavasioth Wrote:雨が降ったなら試合はなかったはずです。明日雨が降るなら試合はないでしょう

Why is the first one a legit use of nara, while the second isn't?

Did you get this out of the DoBJG? If so, why didn't you just read the note it had there?

It says the second "is unacceptable because one can never tell whether it is true or not that it will rain tomorrow."

Somehow I suspect this isn't a hard fast rule, and that Japanese probably can be caught using constructions like this as well.

Hi everyone. I was reading 日本人の知らない日本語 and came across a page that I couldn't really make heads or tails of. Could someone tell me what this sentence means? ”いにしへ奈良の都の八重桜けふ九重に匂ひぬるかなって句が有名じゃない？” Here's the page for context:

http://s1064.photobucket.com/albums/u377...tsudai.jpg

Lavasioth Wrote:雨が降ったなら試合はなかったはずです。明日雨が降るなら試合はないでしょう

Why is the first one a legit use of nara, while the second isn't?

I suck at explanations so apologies in advance but generally なら is used for giving advice or an opinions. The second one doesn't seem to give any opinion, it's just saying "if it rains there won't be a game" and so it's not "proper" use. The first however suggests the game should have been cancelled if it rained. Hope that helps, someone feel free to jump in and give a better explanation if they can.

tnall Wrote:Hi everyone. I was reading 日本人の知らない日本語 and came across a page that I couldn't really make heads or tails of. Could someone tell me what this sentence means? ”いにしへ奈良の都の八重桜けふ九重に匂ひぬるかなって句が有名じゃない？” Here's the page for context:

http://s1064.photobucket.com/albums/u377...tsudai.jpg

Well she's quoting from a famous classical Japanese poem.

All the words are in a normal dictionary except けふ and にほひぬるかな.

けふ = Today
にほひぬるかな = Something like "beautiful colors blossoming"

It means that Spring is coming.

tnall Wrote:Hi everyone. I was reading 日本人の知らない日本語 and came across a page that I couldn't really make heads or tails of. Could someone tell me what this sentence means? ”いにしへ奈良の都の八重桜けふ九重に匂ひぬるかなって句が有名じゃない？” Here's the page for context:

It's a classical Japanese poem, which is probably why you had trouble -- it's poem 20 in the 百人一首 (which I promise i'll continue! Don't shoot me!"

The って句が有名じゃない? Just means "Isn't that poem famous?" Which it is, being in the 百人一首.

A rough translation of the poem is "The eight-fold cherry blossoms that bloomed in old Nara capital are now especially brilliant in the palace." There's a wordplay on 九重, which is a poetic word for the palace, and I suppose a "nine-fold cherry blossom" which doesn't really exist.

vix86 Wrote:A good example sentence for 聞き捨てる.

Let's say your sister dates too many men (like mine) haha... And I've checked it's perfectly natural useage.
彼女は俺の忠告を聞き捨てて、また新しい彼氏を作ったんだ

This one was in the dictionary, a quote I believe.
妻の言葉を聞き捨てて、三吉は出て行った

Crispy Wrote:

Lavasioth Wrote:雨が降ったなら試合はなかったはずです。明日雨が降るなら試合はないでしょう

Why is the first one a legit use of nara, while the second isn't?

I suck at explanations so apologies in advance but generally なら is used for giving advice or an opinions. The second one doesn't seem to give any opinion, it's just saying "if it rains there won't be a game" and so it's not "proper" use. The first however suggests the game should have been cancelled if it rained. Hope that helps, someone feel free to jump in and give a better explanation if they can.

Thanks, got it. In the second one then, what conditional could you use instead of nara?