Betelgeuzah Wrote:Asu, ashita any difference?

The meaning is the same.
You'll hear "asu" more in news etc, as in 明日(あす)の天気 etc.
I've yet to hear あす used in normal conversations with friend etc, then it's only あした.

Zorlee Wrote:

Betelgeuzah Wrote:Asu, ashita any difference?

The meaning is the same.
You'll hear "asu" more in news etc, as in 明日(あす)の天気 etc.
I've yet to hear あす used in normal conversations with friend etc, then it's only あした.

...not to forget 明日（みょうにち）. Guess that's the one that gets used exclusively for formal (speech/keigo?) content.

Betelg euzah Wrote:Asu, ashita any difference?

According to oshiete ashita is common in speech and asu is common in writing.
Interestingly enough, In the Jouyou kanji　常用漢字表付表　明日 is read as asu

http://www12.plala.or.jp/proofread/03.html

HonyakuJoshua Wrote:

Betelg euzah Wrote:Asu, ashita any difference?

According to oshiete ashita is common in speech and asu is common in writing.
Interestingly enough, In the Jouyou kanji　常用漢字表付表　明日 is read as asu

http://www12.plala.or.jp/proofread/03.html

Yes, some textbooks will write あした in kana only for that reason (technically it's not supposed to be a read of 明日). Everyone ignores this though. You'll pretty much get away with always reading it as あした and just understanding that the word あす also exists because it is used in stuff like the news.

yes, it's crazy. 明日 comes up as あした in my electronic dictionary. Thanks for telling us that this is why textbooks write it in hiragana - I had often wondered.

Can anyone explain grammar in 「いってみよ」? I never quite understood it for some reason. What form/forms are at work in みよ?

Miyo is simply the imperative as in lo! a patent! it is the command form in English - shut up! is another example.

te miru　て見る however is a different construction which has the meaning "try and see".

行って見よ　would mean go and see and I think this may be the meaning here.

To form the imperative for group two verbs simply take off the last kana and add yo. This imperative, as far as I am aware, can only be used for group two verbs.

俺から何もかも取りあげといて、このビルまで欲しいのか？
→ I don't understand the といて at the end of 取りあげ. If you need context, this dude previously asked Conan and friends if they've come to arrest him. I assume in this sentence he is saying he gave them everything, and now they even want the building.

それにしては、抵抗した跡がなさすぎですよ。
→ I don't understand なさすぎ but I feel I understand the sentence. Something along the lines of, "Nevertheless there are no signs of a struggle."

I'm terrible at grammar but my gut feeling tells me that といて is just a form of という and なさすぎ is a form of なさそう.

TheVinster Wrote:俺から何もかも取りあげといて、このビルまで欲しいのか？
→ I don't understand the といて at the end of 取りあげ. If you need context, this dude previously asked Conan and friends if they've come to arrest him. I assume in this sentence he is saying he gave them everything, and now they even want the building.

あげておく, contracted to あげとく, in -te form あげといて.

Quote:それにしては、抵抗した跡がなさすぎですよ。
→ I don't understand なさすぎ but I feel I understand the sentence. Something along the lines of, "Nevertheless there are no signs of a struggle."

すぎ = "too much", "overdo". So there are no signs of a struggle, so much so that it's suspicious.

HonyakuJoshua Wrote:Miyo is simply the imperative as in lo! a patent! it is the command form in English - shut up! is another example.

te miru　て見る however is a different construction which has the meaning "try and see".

行って見よ　would mean go and see and I think this may be the meaning here.

To form the imperative for group two verbs simply take off the last kana and add yo. This imperative, as far as I am aware, can only be used for group two verbs.

I'm have a feeling that the いってみよ isn't using the imperative みよ, but rather the volitional みよう, but shortened.

いってみる would be like "to go and see (what happens)". Just like 食べてみる, "to eat and see (how it is)"

In the volitional form, it'd be "let's go and see," although it could also be singular.

While みよ could be imperative, similar to せよ, i think it's a more likely case that it's just a shortened version of みよう.

HonyakuJoshua Wrote:Miyo is simply the imperative as in lo! a patent! it is the command form in English - shut up! is another example.

te miru　て見る however is a different construction which has the meaning "try and see".

行って見よ　would mean go and see and I think this may be the meaning here.

To form the imperative for group two verbs simply take off the last kana and add yo. This imperative, as far as I am aware, can only be used for group two verbs.

So it's the "try and see" form combined with command form? I thought the command form was 見ろ. I haven't found anywhere talking about using よ instead of ろ, I think I'm missing something. :/

Asriel Wrote:I'm have a feeling that the いってみよ isn't using the imperative みよ, but rather the volitional みよう, but shortened.

いってみる would be like "to go and see (what happens)". Just like 食べてみる, "to eat and see (how it is)"

In the volitional form, it'd be "let's go and see," although it could also be singular.

While みよ could be imperative, similar to せよ, i think it's a more likely case that it's just a shortened version of みよう.

Ah, it can be shortened like that, the context does make sense like that. But still not sure how みよ can be imperative?

いってみよ sounds to me like an imperative, but it could depend on context. In a textbook you usually learn that you stick ろ at the end of 一段 verbs to make the imperative, but you can also use よ (this might not be considered standard Japanese, I have no idea, but you hear it often).

Where I live almost everyone would say いってみや here as an imperative...

(Some websites that give the よ as an imperative alongside ろ:
http://www.epochrypha.com/japanese/mater...imperative
http://en.labs.wikimedia.org/wiki/Japane...mmar/Verbs)

「よっしゃ　外へ　いってみよ　外…」
Not said imperative-like, so I'm sure it's shortened volitional now. So I guess I just never heard you can use よ as well. It's not in Tae Kim? Anyway, thanks everyone.

Maybe it is relevant, maybe not but 見よう is a volitional form of 見る. So, could it be that 行って見よ means "let's try to go"?

kudokupo Wrote:「よっしゃ　外へ　いってみよ　外…」

Yeah, sounds like a みよう shortening here^^

I'm not really sure on this, but I think the imperative みよ is the same sort of conjugation as せよ, which is a classical(?) form of the imperative. Yudan, 助けて～

You also come across just いってみ (or is it いってみな, or both?) sometimes being a sort of imperative form. I don't feel comfortable enough with it to use or explain it, but I know I've heard it. And yeah, I suppose I could see や or よ coming after it

kudokupo Wrote:Ah, it can be shortened like that, the context does make sense like that. But still not sure how みよ can be imperative?

　I think it is fairly normal for group 2/ichidan verbs?

I did a quick google, and if you look on page 137 of http://www.scribd.com/doc/33685533/An-In...r-Language it reinforces what I said...

"However‚ this distinction only applies to standard Japanese‚ or標準語 ひょうじゅんご‚which is the “dialect”spoken in the 関東 かんとう region‚ which is where Tokyo lies.North of this region‚ the -ろ form is typically used to issue imperatives‚ whereas South of this region the -よ form tends to be used instead."

HonyakuJoshua Wrote:I think it is fairly normal for group 2/ichidan verbs?

I did a quick google, and if you look on page 137 of http://www.scribd.com/doc/33685533/An-In...r-Language it reinforces what I said...

"However‚ this distinction only applies to standard Japanese‚ or標準語 ひょうじゅんご‚which is the “dialect”spoken in the 関東 かんとう region‚ which is where Tokyo lies.North of this region‚ the -ろ form is typically used to issue imperatives‚ whereas South of this region the -よ form tends to be used instead."

I can't speak for kansai, but in my experience, the -よ imperative is much rarer than the -ろ imperative. The -よ seems much more "bookish" or "old-fashioned" than -ろ. I can see it used in a situation where you'd be using 諸君 rather than お前ら, if you will.

"Ton" Asriel - I have only spent ten days in Japan, and three of those were asleep so I can't really comment - But I have read that the ro imperative is very rude - is this true?

Haha, I'm glad someone picked up on my avatar kanji. I just found it bizarre that they had kanji for the metric system when I first found out. Plus I think it's an awesome character.

Regarding levels of rudeness. Let me just start off by saying that I think that the levels of "rudeness" when explained to learners is a bit overkill. Generally it's more levels of "directness," and depending on the situation you're in, it's more the directness that is perceived as rude, rather than the use of the words itself.

There are lots of types of imperatives, from してください、して、しな、しろ, せよ, etc... The しろ is definitely direct. You shouldn't use it in です・ます situations, and probably not even with friends you don't know very well. But if it's with your circle of buddies, you're probably alright.

みよ is the classical imperative, but I agree with the people who said this is a shortening of みよう (let's try)

yudantaiteki Wrote:みよ is the classical imperative, but I agree with the people who said this is a shortening of みよう (let's try)

This is very important for me to remember - I always seem to forget that the Japanese language is big on shortening.

Every language is big on shortening.