Is the old guy also using じゃ instead of だ, or わし as a first-person pronoun? If so, it's a kind of way of speaking often used in writing for old men. It's not really used in real life outside of writing and anime and stuff. I think yoda spoke like this too.
Does he end his sentences in でござる？ Then it could be supposed to be like old-style samurai-ish (カイエン from FF6)

Or it could be just a sort of 方言...I think they use おる in kansai...?

edit: So yes, unless it's 感じ取る, I do believe that it's 感じて + おる, although not necessarily used as 謙譲語, just using it instead of いる like they do sometimes.

Yeah it just means 感じておる（いる） and the ておる bit gets shortened to とる. おる means いる and is featured very heavily in In Hiroshima-ben which sounds yakuza-ish/bumpkin-ish and probably other dialects from western Japan. If you also see the verb ending よる then it's definitely Hiroshima-ben. In Hiroshima-ben, よる is used for progressive tense (is doing) and とる for perfect tense (has done).

yes your assumptions about the characters involved are both correct on all counts...except i'm not sure about the hiroshima-ben specifically but I think it was definitely being used as a bumpkin-ish yoda-ish dialect. thanks for the helpful explanation.

yudantaiteki Wrote:That seems fine to me; what I would do is pause for a bit after the のですが and see if the person jumps in and says "ok, I'll push the button" or whatever. If not, you can continue with that (I tend to use くださいませんか instead of just ください).

Thank you!

I asked a question on 2ch trying to find out about plasma displays in Japan since I'm looking to buy one.
Context:
テレビの使用は主にパソコンモニター
前のプラズマ世代は残像に影響を受けやすいんだから
現在プラズマ世代はその問題がまだがある？
最後、ジー音もまだ問題？
もしかしてLED液晶ほうがいいかな

I got a guy that posted this in response:
残像が出なくなったってことはない。G音も個体差あるようだが0じゃない。
静かな環境でPCモニターとして使うならどちらにしても推奨しない。

I understand the part about the G-sound, but the first part concerning afterimages has me tripped up on the conjugation. Is he saying something like "After images aren't really a problem now."? My real question though is the "どちらにしても推奨しない."
Is he suggesting I not use both LED or a Plasma as a PC monitor?

EDIT: I also got this "ざんぞうによわかったけ" which I don't understand but I think the guy is just confused at my message?

残像が出なくなったってことはない。G音も個体差あるようだが0じゃない。
I can't say after images (problem) has gone away (completely). regarding the buzz noise(?), it differs on a case by case basis, but (generally) not 0.

静かな環境でPCモニターとして使うならちらにしても推奨しない.
If it's as a computer monitor in a quite environment, I don't recommend either of them. (because the of the buzz sound I assume)

ざんぞうによわかったけ
Were they (plasma screens) prone to after images?
(apparently not aware it is/was a problem)

I was reading an NHK article about the dismissal of the Okinawan Defense Bureau Chief (or however you want to call his title), and it goes like this:
一川防衛大臣は、２９日夜、記者会見し、防衛省沖縄防衛局の田中聡局長が、アメリカ軍普天間基地の移設計画に伴う環境影響評価書の提出を巡り、不適切な発言をしたことについて、「弁解の余地はないと判断した」と述べ、田中局長を更迭することを発表しました。

防衛省沖縄防衛局の田中局長は、２８日夜、那覇市で行った記者団との非公式の懇談会の席で、記者団が、普天間基地の名護市への移設計画に伴う環境影響評価書の提出時期を、一川防衛大臣が年内に提出すると明言しないのはなぜかと質問したのに対し、「犯す前に、これから犯すとは言わない」と発言しました。

It all makes perfect sense to me... except what Chief Tanaka actually said:
「犯す前に、これから犯すとは言わない」

What's going on with this sentence? (For example, what does the 前に mean here?)

(Ah, here's a link to the full article, although I copied it from the beginning to the quote I was wondering about: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20111129...41000.html )

「犯す前に、これから犯すとは言わない」
You don't say "I'm about to rape you" before raping someone.

おかす　doesn't necessarily mean rape though, but considering the controversial nature of the statement it seems possible it was interpreted that way. It could just be "perpetrate" or "violate" I guess. I'm not really sure.

nadiatims Wrote:「犯す前に、これから犯すとは言わない」
You don't say "I'm about to rape you" before raping someone.

おかす　doesn't necessarily mean rape though, but considering the controversial nature of the statement it seems possible it was interpreted that way. It could just be "perpetrate" or "violate" I guess. I'm not really sure.

Oh, haha, I get it. For some reason the sentence didn't click for me--weird how that happens sometimes. Thanks.

今日は侍らしい勇敢さに溢れているんだ！
I got this corrected on Lang8 into the following sentence, and don't understand why exactly.. the explanation given by the corrector is confusing me somehow, therefore I ask here: でも、今日は侍のような勇敢さ（Or勇気）に溢れているんだ！
See the bold part.

I have the feeling that らしい just comes after special words, like っぽい comes after 子どもっぽい、大人っぽい、白っぽい／黒っぽい、水っぽい／油っぽい　など.

Could you also post the explanation?

nadiatims Wrote:「犯す前に、これから犯すとは言わない」
You don't say "I'm about to rape you" before raping someone.

おかす　doesn't necessarily mean rape though, but considering the controversial nature of the statement it seems possible it was interpreted that way. It could just be "perpetrate" or "violate" I guess. I'm not really sure.

If you read the Mainichi article on this story, it uses the phrase 女性や沖縄県民を侮辱するともとれる内容. There's also a quote from somebody "普天間返還が動いたのは（９５年の）少女暴行事件だ。そういう普天間の歴史を考えても問題がある". So I think that confirms your view that the "rape" interpretation is definitely plausible (but not obligatory, I guess from that "ともとれる").

Tori-kun Wrote:今日は侍らしい勇敢さに溢れているんだ！
I got this corrected on Lang8 into the following sentence, and don't understand why exactly.. the explanation given by the corrector is confusing me somehow, therefore I ask here: でも、今日は侍のような勇敢さ（Or勇気）に溢れているんだ！
See the bold part.

I have the feeling that らしい just comes after special words, like っぽい comes after 子どもっぽい、大人っぽい、白っぽい／黒っぽい、水っぽい／油っぽい　など.

In order to say noun-Xらしい, the thing you are describing must actually be X. So 侍らしい has to be said about an actual samurai. I could be described as 日本人みたい but not 日本人らしい.

pm215 Wrote:If you read the Mainichi article on this story, it uses the phrase 女性や沖縄県民を侮辱するともとれる内容. There's also a quote from somebody "普天間返還が動いたのは（９５年の）少女暴行事件だ。そういう普天間の歴史を考えても問題がある". So I think that confirms your view that the "rape" interpretation is definitely plausible (but not obligatory, I guess from that "ともとれる").

Yeah, an editorial on mainichi also says: 発言は、沖縄が反対する県内移設に向けた措置を女性への性的暴行にたとえたものであり、言語道断の暴言だ。

(It seems like 暴言 has become kind of a buzzword since this has happened--Mainichi also has an article talking about the word itself: http://mainichi.jp/select/opinion/yoroku...2000c.html )

yudantaiteki Wrote:

Tori-kun Wrote:今日は侍らしい勇敢さに溢れているんだ！
I got this corrected on Lang8 into the following sentence, and don't understand why exactly.. the explanation given by the corrector is confusing me somehow, therefore I ask here: でも、今日は侍のような勇敢さ（Or勇気）に溢れているんだ！
See the bold part.

I have the feeling that らしい just comes after special words, like っぽい comes after 子どもっぽい、大人っぽい、白っぽい／黒っぽい、水っぽい／油っぽい　など.

In order to say noun-Xらしい, the thing you are describing must actually be X. So 侍らしい has to be said about an actual samurai. I could be described as 日本人みたい but not 日本人らしい.

I asked my Japanese friend about this and he said that the reason you can't say らしい here is just because it's not something you can put on the end of anything. You can say 男らしい or 女らしい, but you just don't say 侍らしい. The thing doesn't actually have to be what you're saying it's like.

I think your friend may be wrong; even as a native speaker he may not have thought through らしい (it's certainly not something he would have been explicitly taught). One of the 称号 in the game 侍道 involves 侍らしい選択をひとつもとらない so it can be used.

Ask your friend again if a woman can be 男らしい or an American can be 日本人らしい. I've taught らしい using this explanation (from JSL) a number of times, along with native speakers, and none of them have ever thought the explanation was wrong.

(Note that none of this applies to らしい being used at the end of a clause rather than a noun.)

yudantaiteki Wrote:In order to say noun-Xらしい, the thing you are describing must actually be X. So 侍らしい has to be said about an actual samurai. I could be described as 日本人みたい but not 日本人らしい.

I asked this to my sensei a few weeks ago when I studied this in the soumatome bunpou n3 book (which didnt really explain this very well) and she explained me just like this.

I would assume that -っぽい works like -みたい in this situation, right? ...in that you can apply it to things that that it in reality is not...

Also that makes -らしい a very narrowly specific modifier... basically you're only saying that X is REALLY an X... like since I'm a leo, and I'm acting alpha and social, etc... someone might say "hey you're a really stereotypical leo"...

or if I'm acting masculine (and I'm male)... "君は男らしい” meaning that I come off as macho, etc...

am I getting the gist here?

yudantaiteki Wrote:In order to say noun-Xらしい, the thing you are describing must actually be X.

So expressions like 「男らしい女」 or 「姉らしい妹」 are wrong?

The Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar says that XはYらしい indicates that X is an 'ideal model' of Y. So you can think of it that way if you like (rather than thinking of Yらしい as "Y-ish," which is closer to what Yっぽい means).

One example I hear of this grammar very often is when I'm in Ponto-cho or Gion or something, and people remark 京都らしい--which is of course appropriate because we're in Kyoto.

"今日は侍らしい勇敢さに溢れているんだ！"

This is just speculation but could it be that 侍らしい勇敢さ is weird because bravery itself is not something that can be like/resemblant of a samurai? You're comparing a physical thing, a person, and an intangible attribute. A measure of bravery that resembles a samurai?

iSoron Wrote:

yudantaiteki Wrote:In order to say noun-Xらしい, the thing you are describing must actually be X.

So expressions like 「男らしい女」 or 「姉らしい妹」 are wrong?

They should be. Unfortunately real life doesn't follow the grammar books 100% of the time, so there are exceptions (as both of the ones you listed). It may be that the non-X examples are restricted; I'm not sure.

yudantaiteki Wrote:

iSoron Wrote:

yudantaiteki Wrote:In order to say noun-Xらしい, the thing you are describing must actually be X.

So expressions like 「男らしい女」 or 「姉らしい妹」 are wrong?

They should be. Unfortunately real life doesn't follow the grammar books 100% of the time, so there are exceptions (as both of the ones you listed). It may be that the non-X examples are restricted; I'm not sure.

Well, in my book, there are a few nouns/na-adjectives listed that do use らしい, as I wrote above.. I still don't get the hang what was wrong about my sentence. Isn't bravery something typical for a samurai? I mean, it's not *un*typical, is it? Or am I not getting the point here?

nadiatims Wrote:This is just speculation but could it be that 侍らしい勇敢さ is weird because bravery itself is not something that can be like/resemblant of a samurai? You're comparing a physical thing, a person, and an intangible attribute. A measure of bravery that resembles a samurai?

Then all these expressions, from Kenkyusha, should also be weird:「子供らしいいたずら」「彼らしいやり方」「 社長らしい貫禄」「若者らしい覇気」

From core 6000:

どうやら

example sentence:

”明日はどうやら雨らしいよ”

um... another "-rashii" exception? because this is a pretty weird one.