kitakitsune Wrote:

SugaHOLiC Wrote:ドリムス。写真いっぱい撮ったので、またアップしますね

いっぱい in this case just means 'a lot'.

SugaHOLiC Wrote:とゆうことでドリムス。達をお届けしました

とゆうことで is making a reference to things already mentioned earlier. Specifically the dreams. It means something close to 'in that way; in other words; as I mentioned...etc'.

Thanks for your response!

Kay

Can somebody give me a properly translation for this sentence? I have a general idea of it but can't seem it grasp it fully.

従来のスーパーマーケットよりも規模はかなり小さいが、食料品や日用雑貨をはじめ、雑誌や文具、衣料品ならたいていのものがそろう便利な店。

The first part is easy, something along the lines of "Convenience stores are fairly smaller than traditional supermarkets and...

My translation is something like '(Convenience store is) a convenient store that usually at at the beginning had magazines, stationary and even clothes, then has groceries and everyday goods.

Red is at which I kind of lost. なら　is along the lines of 'if' which doesn't make exact sense in this context.

DevvaR Wrote:Can somebody give me a properly translation for this sentence? I have a general idea of it but can't seem it grasp it fully.

従来のスーパーマーケットよりも規模はかなり小さいが、食料品や日用雑貨をはじめ、雑誌や文具、衣料品ならたいていのものがそろう便利な店。

If I was going to put it into natural English, I would say;

"Although smaller than a traditional supermarket, a convenience store carries everything from food and everyday goods upto magazines, stationery and even clothing."

It's one of those sentences where it is a little difficult to translate word for word

The なら kind of supports the をはじめ I think. So the をはじめ is saying of course they carry food and everyday goods (literally 'starting with food and everyday goods'), and the なら is saying 'in the case that you are looking for magazines, stationery and clothing' for the most part these are available too.

what does 頑張らなければ mean?

i know 頑張る means but cant really wrap my head around なければ part. It was from this sentence from a blog

またまた、今日から

ハロコンのリハーサルdayです。

頑張らなければ～

It's from ～なければならない meaning someone has to do something. So someone has to try hard at their rehearsal.

Also check this part. It will explain ば
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/gra...nditionals

DevvaR Wrote:Also check this part. It will explain ば
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/gra...nditionals

Thanks! I found that link also useful.

http://homepage3.nifty.com/i-yasu/Lesson8.htm
It did some really good explanations and I would not need to worry about which to use, at least not between たら and ば, since the former is more formal and obviously used more in writing then the latter that gets more commonly used in common speech/language.
Anyone mine that website???

DevvaR Wrote:従来のスーパーマーケットよりも規模はかなり小さいが、食料品や日用雑貨をはじめ、雑誌や文具、衣料品ならたいていのものがそろう便利な店。
My translation is something like '(Convenience store is) a convenient store that usually at at the beginning had magazines, stationary and even clothes, then has groceries and everyday goods.

Red is at which I kind of lost. なら　is along the lines of 'if' which doesn't make exact sense in this context.

As SendaiDan says, Xをはじめ doesn't mean "at the beginning"; it's citing X as an obvious/primary/important member of some group (here "things you can get at convenience stores"). I just thought it was worth emphasising that it's probably better to treat it as a bit of idiom/grammar and not get hung up on a literal "beginning/start" meaning (sometimes "starting with X" works as a translation but I think it's often enough wrong that it's better not to have it in your head as the first thing you reach for).

(Nothing much more to add on なら except that this is basically the same as rather simpler sentences like "メイド服Lサイズならあります" -- which was just the first decent example I found on google, honest ^_^

pm215 Wrote:Red is at which I kind of lost. なら　is along the lines of 'if' which doesn't make exact sense in this context.
As SendaiDan says, Xをはじめ doesn't mean "at the beginning"; it's citing X as an obvious/primary/important member of some group...

Ok, it makes perfect sense now. Blame my Japanese teacher for trying to literally translate things word for word to "preserve the details". I guess which only works for simplier sentences.
Also, I hate how because of the ordering of the info, my brain gets tripped up.

pm215 Wrote:(Nothing much more to add on なら except that this is basically the same as rather simpler sentences like "メイド服Lサイズならあります" -- which was just the first decent example I found on google, honest ^_^

Haha...that made me lol.

@yudantaiteki: thanks for your replies before! Yeah, it's definately not Japanese Japanese sentences... so i won't worry about it too much.
......

This is more of a translation question than a meaning question, i guess.

私が言いたいのは特殊な現実の中にあっては――というのはもちろんこの馬鹿げたつるつるのエレベーターのことだ――非特殊性は逆説的特殊性として便宜的に排除されてしかるべきではないか、ということである。

"What i mean to say is that in this specific reality (being, of course, the absurd smoothness of the elevator), as it's undistinctiveness is, paradoxically, it's distinctiveness..."

how would you translate 「便宜的に排除されてしかるべきではないか、ということである」? i have no idea... i only know what it means from the context of what's been said before and after (at least, i hope i know hahah):

his writing is quite stream of consciousness like at this point, and so he's jumped around a few subjects. He talks about looking at counterfactuals in a way that only includes what is relevent as much as possible.
私はどちらかといえば様々な世界の事象・ものごと・存在を便宜的に考える方ではないかと自分では考えている。それは私が便宜的な性格の人間だからというのではなく――もちろんいくぶんそういう傾向があることは認めるが――便宜的にものごとを捉とらえる方が正統的な解釈よりそのものごとの本質の理解により近づいているような場合が世間には数多く見うけられるからである。
たとえば地球が球状の物体ではなく巨大なコーヒー・テーブルであると考えたところで、日常生活のレベルでいったいどれほどの不都合があるだろう？　もちろんこれはかなり極端な例であって、何もかもをそんな風に自分勝手に作りかえてしまうわけではない。しかし地球が巨大なコーヒー・テーブルであるという便宜的な考え方が、地球が球状であることによって生ずる様々な種類の瑣さ末まつな問題――たとえば引力や日付変更線や赤道といったようなたいして役に立ちそうにもないものごと――をきれいさっぱりと排除してくれることもまた事実である。ごく普通の生活を送っている人間にとって赤道などという問題にかかわらねばならないことが一生のうちにいったい何度あるというのだ？　というわけで私はできるだけ便宜的な視点からものごとを眺ながめようと心懸けている。
then talks about something else for a while, then comes to the quote above, which is directly followed by:
機械の手入れを怠ったり来訪者をエレベーターに乗せたきりあとの操作を忘れてしまうような不注意な人間がこれほど手のこんだエキセントリックなエレベーターを作ったりするものなのだろうか？　答はもちろんノオだった。 　そんなことはありえない。

don't know if you really need to know all that, but...

pm215 Wrote:(Nothing much more to add on なら except that this is basically the same as rather simpler sentences like "メイド服Lサイズならあります" -- which was just the first decent example I found on google, honest ^_^

yeah, we believe you!! mind you, I wonder if they sell many Lサイズ, judging from all the comments about skinny girls in http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid142191. If so, who's buying them??

IceCream Wrote:This is more of a translation question than a meaning question, i guess.

私が言いたいのは特殊な現実の中にあっては――というのはもちろんこの馬鹿げたつるつるのエレベーターのことだ――非特殊性は逆説的特殊性として便宜的に排除されてしかるべきではないか、ということである。

"What i mean to say is that in this specific reality (being, of course, the absurd smoothness of the elevator), as it's undistinctiveness is, paradoxically, it's distinctiveness..."

how would you translate 「便宜的に排除されてしかるべきではないか、ということである」? i have no idea... i only know what it means from the context of what's been said before and after (at least, i hope i know hahah):

I had a stab at it but this kind of writing turns my head into mush...

"What I want to say is that in this specialised reality - by which I mean of course this absurd, smooth lift - is it not suitable to say that indistinctiveness is conveniently eliminated by it being paradoxical distinctiveness."

hmm, but isn't it　「しかるべき」　「ではないか」...? as in ではないか is like a rhetorical question...?

i think what he means is that in this situation, it's appropriate to leave out other possiblities [possible worlds] (the part after it seems to be the argument as to why).　i don't think 便宜的 means "convenient" here but more like "supposition" (whatever the adjective of that could be). Because "便宜的な考え方" from the writing that came before that doesn't make sense if it means "conveniant", rather, he's talking about counterfactuals. But the に is confusing!!! Why isn't it を or something instead if that was right?

if anyone has the english translation of "hard boiled wonderland and the end of the world", they could easily tell us i guess... it's in the first chapter...

EDIT: i added another paragraph of the writing in the post above, because it's clearer on the 便宜的 thing, i think...

IceCream Wrote:hmm, but isn't it　「しかるべき」　「ではないか」...? as in ではないか is like a rhetorical question...?

Well a rhetorical question is just one that doesn't expect a reply so does it have a special phrasing? To me it just sounds like the speaker is musing to himself. With the bit at the beginning 「私が言いたいのは」　"What I want to say is..." it's clear he's about to give his opinion and not actually pose a question.

IceCream Wrote:i think what he means is that in this situation, it's appropriate to leave out other possible worlds.

As the clause starts "非特殊性は" it seems likely that "排除されて" applies to '非特殊性'. I'm not sure what you mean by other worlds but maybe that's because I haven't read whatever this quote is from?

IceCream Wrote:i don't think 便宜的 means "convenient" but more like "supposition" (whatever the adjective of that could be). But the に is confusing!!! Why isn't it を or something instead?

As far as I'm aware 便宜的 does mean something like 'conveniently'. From goo「その場の都合がよいようにとりあえず物事を処理するさま。間に合わせ」 I'm not sure how you'd get the meaning as being 'supposition'.

便宜的 is an adjective and the に makes it an adverb so it presumably is describing 排除されて. I'm not sure how you'd get the meaning as being 'supposition'.

I broke down the sentence like this.

非特殊性は(逆説的特殊性として)便宜的に排除されてしかるべきではないか
First ignore the bit in brackets.

非特殊性は便宜的に排除されてしかるべき
It is not appropriate to conveniently eliminate indistinctiveness?

The question is how is it able to be eliminated? The answer is 逆説的特殊性として 'as paradoxical distinctiveness'

So putting it together:
"It is not appropriate to conveniently eliminate indistinctiveness as paradoxcial distinctiveness?"

and then I changed it a bit to make it sound more 'Englishy' to my mind

"Is it not suitable to say that indistinctiveness is conveniently eliminated by it being paradoxical distinctiveness?"

What a long post...

IceCream Wrote:私はどちらかといえば様々な世界の事象・ものごと・存在を便宜的に考える方ではないかと自分では考えている。

It sounds to me like he takes whatever happens to be the convenient view on all the various world affairs, events etc. So he doesn't think too deeply about it, just goes along with whatever. But of course I could be wrong

um... what's going on with the forum?!?

anyway, to get back to it:

oops, sorry, i misread your first post, i thought it said "it is not suitable" rather than "is it not suitable" :/

i found the official translation online:
"What i mean to say is that in a highly exceptional reality -this ridiculously slick elevator a case in point- the non-exceptional can, for convenience sake, be written off as paradoxically exceptional."

So yeah, i was reading too much into it. i know "conveniance" is a translation, but i thought something else would make more sense... because viewing the world as a giant coffee table isn't exactly the most conveniant way to look at it, but if you do look at it that way, what things would change as a result of that do come to light, which suggests the "supposition" thing...
...i'll stop thinking too hard then.

Anyway, thanks for the help!!! it's the として part i was parsing wrong then... the breakdown was really helpful, thanks!

IceCream Wrote:um... what's going on with the forum?!?

on the fourm question...

Do these spammers really think that this does something for them? I cant even imagine how this generates income. Anyway...rant over.

Superfreek Wrote:

IceCream Wrote:um... what's going on with the forum?!?

on the fourm question...

Do these spammers really think that this does something for them? I cant even imagine how this generates income. Anyway...rant over.

I read that some researchers did some work into the effectiveness of spam, and found that of 12 million spam emails that the researchers sent out, one sale was made. And because email is free, that's enough to make a profit.

... time isn't free though...

The last part of this pixiv tag description is kind of confusing:

我々の業界ではご褒美ですとは、一般的に見ればとてもご褒美とは思えない行為が相手やそれを受ける人物によってご褒美に昇華するという他殺志願者業界御用達のタグである。

相手やそれを受ける人物 = the recipient or other person who would receive this act?

ご褒美に昇華するという他殺志願者業界御用達のタグである = the government murder industry contractor candidate who would purify this reward?

From - http://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E6%88%91%E3%80%8...7%E3%81%99

Please help.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:相手やそれを受ける人物 = the recipient or other person who would receive this act?

In this case 受ける means 'undertake'

TheTrueBlue Wrote:ご褒美に昇華するという他殺志願者業界御用達のタグである = the government murder industry contractor candidate who would purify this reward?

ご褒美に昇華する=Raised up to a reward
他殺志願者＝someone who wants to kill others

我々の業界ではご褒美ですとは、一般的に見ればとてもご褒美とは思えない行為が相手やそれを受ける人物によってご褒美に昇華するという他殺志願者業界御用達のタグである。

'Our reward is in our work' means, actions that normally wouldn't seem at all like a reward, when undertaken by certain people are raised up to the status of a reward. It is a tag for government-contracted would-be killers.

So I kind of disagree with puddingcat about this in a few places, but I'm not 100% certain of myself. So here's another opinion...

TheTrueBlue Wrote:The last part of this pixiv tag description is kind of confusing:

我々の業界ではご褒美ですとは、一般的に見ればとてもご褒美とは思えない行為が相手やそれを受ける人物によってご褒美に昇華するという他殺志願者業界御用達のタグである。

Quote:相手やそれを受ける人物 = the recipient or other person who would receive this act?

(行為)を受ける人物 : the person on the receiving end of the act. I don't think this is the "undertake" meaning of 受ける. 相手 in this case I guess is the other person, the one doing the act.

Quote:ご褒美に昇華するという他殺志願者業界御用達のタグである = the government murder industry contractor candidate who would purify this reward?

You've misparsed this, I think -- ご褒美に昇華する goes with the preceding part, so the whole phrase from the comma "[...]行為が[...]人物によってご褒美に昇華する" is what's being quoted by という here.

I had some difficulty nailing down 昇華する, but since this is the plain する form with
行為 as the subject I would avoid translating into a passive so I'd go for "attains the status of a reward".

So "一般的に見ればとてもご褒美とは思えない行為が相手やそれを受ける人物によってご褒美に昇華する" : actions which wouldn't seem at all like a reward to a normal person attain the status of a reward for the person receiving or giving them.

I would translate "我々の業界ではご褒美です" as "In our business that's a reward".

他殺志願者業界御用達 is a bit baffling, but (as you can tell from pudding cat's "It is a tag for [...]" phrasing) it's not critical for understanding the rest of the sentence.

The page describing origin and history that your original source links to is kind of informative, and has an alternate (and easier to understand :-)) definition:
「我々の業界ではご褒美です」 とは、一般的な人にとっては苦痛の原因だったり嫌悪する対象だったりするものが、別の特定の趣味、嗜好、あるいは性癖を持つ人、マニアにとっては、無上の喜びや愉悦の対象だったり、好物、ご馳走、嗜好品となることです。

So someone on Lang-8 corrected one of my sentences and I'm having a hard time getting it. I think I get the gist, but I'm not sure.
It's: 多分今週は穏やかに過ごせるかな？
I was trying to say something like, "maybe this week will be calmer?" (Cause I've been so busy lately.)
I'm particularly stuck on 過ごせるかな.　I haven't seen that form yet. But then I don't read much. (Much to my shame.)
Thanks.

Angeldust Wrote:It's: 多分今週は穏やかに過ごせるかな？

It's from 過ごす, the verb that signifies the passing of time. The -eru gives it a meaning of 'to be able to.' 過ごせる, then, is 'will be able to pass.' 穏やかに is 'calmly.'

So, it means, "I wonder if (and think that probably) this week will be able to pass calmly."

'To be able to pass' is not really used in English in this case, so a literal translation is clunky. In Japanese the -rareru/-eru form is often used to convey how the speaker would like things to be. In this case the speaker wants it to be a calm week, so the -eru form is used.

The かな conveys that the speaker is wondering to himself, by asking himself a question. Very often you will hear people mumble to themselves 「どうしたらいいかな」--"What should I do?"

Angeldust Wrote:So someone on Lang-8 corrected one of my sentences and I'm having a hard time getting it. I think I get the gist, but I'm not sure.
It's: 多分今週は穏やかに過ごせるかな？
I was trying to say something like, "maybe this week will be calmer?" (Cause I've been so busy lately.)
I'm particularly stuck on 過ごせるかな.　I haven't seen that form yet. But then I don't read much. (Much to my shame.)
Thanks.

過ごせる = 過ごす in potential form
かな = "I wonder"