I think it's that カップ is a generic cup but コップ is a cup made of glass.

FooSoft Wrote:Does anyone know what the で here does grammatically? I don't expect it to be there at all.

田舎に来たのはいい機会なんだろうけど、無ければ無かったで別のストレスを溜め込んでしまうような気もする。

で　means " the state of things "in this context, I think. Or "and"

like "in case of/ in the state of us not having gone to the countryside..."

or "and"

I think it's probably "and"

My grammar book has ～いざしらず and ~いざ知らず listed separately but is there actually any difference?

pudding cat Wrote:My grammar book has ～いざしらず and ~いざ知らず listed separately but is there actually any difference?

One is in kanji.

No, not really.

astendra Wrote:

pudding cat Wrote:My grammar book has ～いざしらず and ~いざ知らず listed separately but is there actually any difference?

One is in kanji.

No, not really.

Thanks I just wanted to be sure. Stupid grammar book...

jettyke Wrote:

FooSoft Wrote:Does anyone know what the で here does grammatically? I don't expect it to be there at all.

田舎に来たのはいい機会なんだろうけど、無ければ無かったで別のストレスを溜め込んでしまうような気もする。

で　means " the state of things "in this context, I think. Or "and"

like "in case of/ in the state of us not having gone to the countryside..."

or "and"

I think it's probably "and"

The problem with that is that usually 無かったで would be ungrammatical, you would use 無くて instead. I've been waiting for someone else to answer this so I could see the answer as well. (The only thing I can think of is that なければなかった must be taken here as a single idiomatic unit and treated as a noun...but I can't recall seeing that before.)

My personal opinion is that this is either a typo or a miswrite and that it's supposed to be んで or ので; then it makes sense (i.e. "It may have been a good chance to go to the countryside, but since I had to go, I also felt like I was just being filled with a different type of stress.") IMO that's the meaning whether it's ので or で, but to me just having で is ungrammatical.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking yudantaiteki, although I was reading it more with the で missing altogether or I guess, to modify the type of stress.

This line is from a commercial game (Yosuga no Sora), so that's why I didn't rule it out as a typo initially (could still be one though).

It gets enough google hits that I wouldn't be totally confident about writing it off as a typo...

Yeah, I'm leaning towards the fixed idiom now -- I realized that I was misreading that as なければならかなった, when it's actually なければなかった.

I asked a Japanese person and she said that it makes sense. She imagined that なければなかった referred to previous sentence possibly about already being stressed. So she translated it like this:

"It was a good opportunity to go to the countryside but I feel that if I hadn't already been stressed out, I would have just been filled with another kind of stress."

pudding cat Wrote:"It was a good opportunity to go to the countryside but I feel that if I hadn't already been stressed out, I would have just been filled with another kind of stress."

無ければ無かったで[different stress] = hadn't it been [別のストレス] ?

By the way why does the "already" come in? I don't see any indications for it.
It's probably there for the sake of natural English, right? Not that it makes it much more natural but...

jettyke Wrote:

pudding cat Wrote:"It was a good opportunity to go to the countryside but I feel that if I hadn't already been stressed out, I would have just been filled with another kind of stress."

無ければ無かったで[different stress] = hadn't it been [別のストレス] ?

By the way why does the "already" come in? I don't see any indications for it.
It's probably there for the sake of natural English, right? Not that it makes it much more natural but...

She put the 'already' in because there has to be some kind of 'initial stress' for there to be a 'different stress'. The use of 「別のストレス」 is what led her to assume that the なければなかった is referring to an 'inital stress' mentioned in a previous sentence.

Ah, that makes sense! Yeah, basically the character is talking about moving to the countryside from the city (where the previous stress was).

「ゴシック様式をベースに、イスラム建築の影響を受けたムデハル様式を加え、さらに独特の装飾を加えたマヌエル様式と呼ばれたつくり方で、ポルトガル特有である。.」

How would one translate the part in bold?

How I would translate it:

The characteristics of architecture of Portugal are: The facts that the Gothic style was the base of the architecture of Portugal, the Mudéjar style which had been influenced by Islamic architecture had also been included, and in addition the fact that the ornaments were made in a way characteristic to the Manuel style.

jettyke Wrote:「ゴシック様式をベースに、イスラム建築の影響を受けたムデハル様式を加え、さらに独特の装飾を加えたマヌエル様式と呼ばれたつくり方で、ポルトガル特有である。.」

How would one translate the part in bold?

How I would translate it:

The characteristics of architecture of Portugal are: The facts that the Gothic style was the base of the architecture of Portugal, the Mudéjar style which had been influenced by Islamic architecture had also been included, and in addition the fact that the ornaments were made in a way characteristic to the Manuel style.

I don't think this is talking about the characteristics of Portugese architecture; it's talking about a particular building and summing up its description by saying it's "characteristically Portugese" (or "unique to Portugal"). (Google provides the context for your sentence and tells me we're talking about the Jerónimos Monastery.) The whole sentence has the structure "[ジェロニモス修道院は]~で、~である", and almost all of it is actually a subclause modifying つくり方... You might like to pick the sentence apart and satisfy yourself that you know what all the sub-parts of it are modifying.

"マヌエル様式と呼ばれたつくり方" is straightforwardly "the style of building known as (lit. called) Manueline Style".

So my attempt at a complete translation:

"Built in the Manueline style which added to a Gothic base the Islamic-influenced Mudéjar style and its own unique ornamentation, it is unique to Portugal."

@pm215

Wow thanks a lot.

I'm feeling more and more stupid because of trying to translate things which are way above my level lol Don't know if it' s good or bad.

Not to mention that I'm doing this for school XD and it will be corrected by my Art history teacher ...

また、東洋への関心の高さもコインブラの図書館やシントラの王宮などの装飾からうかがうことができたし、リスボンの古代美術館では狩野派の南蛮屏風など日本との交流の歴史を確認でき、研修の成果は少なくない


Why is this phrase used in the end? It seems kind of out of place.
Does this part in bold have something to do with the 「また」in the beginning?


Something like: Although I saw a lot of things, the results of this study were rather small?


The title of the page is:

327　建築を訪ねて
ポルトガル見聞録速報
050101　伊藤庸一　Email ito@nit.ac.jp　　http://leo.nit.ac.jp/~ito/

少なくない means they're *not* small. The research produced big results.

yudantaiteki Wrote:少なくない means they're *not* small. The research produced big results.

haha, lol　

But how to say the results were " small" ?
I've get the feeling that I've never heard of 小さいbeing used in this context.
おおくない？

hahah

it would be
少ない

Lol

Okay, I've been up for too long

edit:

斜録
DIAGONAL TRANSCRIPT???

Now I'm even more confused. No dictionary knows such a word.

I think it's just the name of that guy's webpage.

yudantaiteki Wrote:I think it's just the name of that guy's webpage.

You're right...
a rather strange name.

I was taking a look at the description of different 龍が如く4 items.

ポークベースにチキンや香辛野菜を織り交ぜたスープに旨炊き背脂でコクを持たせた豚骨ラーメンです。
最後の一滴まで飲み干したくなるスープです。

Tonkotsu Ramen with soup consisting of pork, a mix of chicken, spices and ??? pork fat which gives it a deep flavor. It makes you wanna drink up to the last drip of it.

What does 「旨炊き」 mean? I guess it must be a way of cooking something but couldn't find a description. Japanese really has a lot of specific food related terms XD.

The dictionary has 旨煮 (うまに) meaning "meat, fish, and vegetables cooked in a thick sauce containing soy with sugar." So maybe 旨炊く　is a variation of that? (Incidentally, 旨 is is also the u in umami (旨味) or MSG.)

I cheated by peeking at a tonkotsu recipe in English. It said to slow braise the pork in a soy mirin liquid. That sounds like chashu (Japan's version of Chinese char sui - barbequed pork) except with an even fattier cut. You add it to the soup at the end (it's not part of the stock itself).

(Those photos of pork stock making should come with a warning. I doubt I'll eat ramen again.)