Hi there,

Having recently "finished" RtK (reached 2042), I'm moving onto sentences. Today as I was mining a few from a dictionary, a question came up and I'm just not sure about it.

In this sentence:
彼のようには英語を話せない.

What would the reading be? Just from previous knowledge, I would read it like this:
かれのようにはえいごをはなせない.

However, when pasted into Anki, this reading is produced:
かのようにはえいごをはなせない.

Since the translation given is " I can't speak English as well as him.", I think it should be かれ, but I'd like to check and be sure.

Thanks!

Yup, definitley かれ. I've never seen it read as かの.

bombpersons Wrote:Yup, definitley かれ. I've never seen it read as かの.

You've never seen the word 彼女? (the の can be part of the kanji reading or okurigana)

彼 literally just means "that", so 彼女 means "that woman". It can be used to refer to people or things (彼車 - that car). It's a synonym of あの (and actually predates it). あの and あれ are infact written with the same character. (かの→あの、かれ→あれ), you can see the pattern.

Not used so much in modern Japanese except in existing compounds though..

Jarvik7 Wrote:

bombpersons Wrote:Yup, definitley かれ. I've never seen it read as かの.

You've never seen the word 彼女? (the の can be part of the kanji reading or okurigana)

彼 literally just means "that", so 彼女 means "that woman". It can be used to refer to people or things (彼車 - that car). It's a synonym of あの (and actually predates it). あの and あれ are infact written with the same character. (かの→あの、かれ→あれ), you can see the pattern.

Not used so much in modern Japanese except in existing compounds though..

I meant on its own =D Though I didn't actually think about that...

Yes, that's a problem with the automatic kanji to kana thingie. When you enter "彼の" it gets converted to "かの" and you don't even get multiple choices.

How do you guys go about discovering which reading is preferred in sentences? Like, when I encounter 家, should it be うち or いえ?

Is there any good way short of just asking a Japanese friend to read over your sentences?

Jarvik7 Wrote:Not used so much in modern Japanese except in existing compounds though..

Certainly か and かの aren't very common readings of 彼, but they're not limited to compounds either. Typical examples are:

彼の地ではこれが普通なんだとか。
ほほー。これが彼の有名なXXXですか。

Kana is often used in these cases, though. Also, あの and かの are similar in meaning, but they are actually different in modern Japanese. For example, if you say あの有名な画家, it implies both you and the listener know the painter while かの有名な画家 implies the painter is so famous most of people heard of him.

sethg Wrote:How do you guys go about discovering which reading is preferred in sentences? Like, when I encounter 家, should it be うち or いえ?

家 and 自家 can be read うち, but it's kind of rare. うち tends to be written in kana, and いえ is often written in kanji.

That said, you'll see うち in kanji fairly often because it's a very basic word. In general, 家 tends to be pronounced うち when the sense of "family" or "home" is strong in your mind. For instance, 一週間家を空ける (be gone from home for a week) can be either いっしゅうかん いえ を あける or いっしゅうかん うち を あける depending on your "mood." If you're living by yourself, you might say いえ more often than a person who lives with his or her parents.

Could someone tell me the meaning of the following Sentence?

今古有神奉志士
きんこゆうしんほうしし

It it from a japanese Sword from the movie 'Last Samurai'

I know he words itself, but don't know how should I tranlate into a sentence.

今古 / ぎんこ /now and anciently
有　/ ゆう / 1: existence; 2: possession; having; 3: (Abbreviation) limited company
神　/ しん / Kami
奉　/ ほう / observance, offer, present, dedicate
志士　/ しし / patriot; public-spirited person

It's Chinese not Japanese (the upper class males of pre-Meiji Japan generally used Chinese when writing), but the meaning seems to be:

<New + old><possesses><spirit><observing><warrior>

Warrior who has the spirit of the new and old.

Or something. My Chinese still sucks.

I thought Ie gave a stronger sense of your own personal home/family, where as uchi was for any general arbitrary house.

liosama Wrote:I thought Ie gave a stronger sense of your own personal home/family, where as uchi was for any general arbitrary house.

Nope. 家（うち） is derived from the same 和語 as 内(うち), giving it a personal sense. ex: うちの父さん, 俺んち, etc

家（うち） can also refer to other people's houses too, but you probably wouldn't refer to an empty house for sale as うち.

Jarvik7 Wrote:

liosama Wrote:I thought Ie gave a stronger sense of your own personal home/family, where as uchi was for any general arbitrary house.

Nope. 家（うち） is derived from the same 和語 as 内(うち), giving it a personal sense. ex: うちの父さん, 俺んち, etc

家（うち） can also refer to other people's houses too, but you probably wouldn't refer to an empty house for sale as うち.

That is correct. People as use うち　as in うちの会社　, also giving it that personal sense.

the phrases 男の子 and 女の子, i used to think their meaning was the same as "boy" and "girl", but lately i've seen those phrases used in situations where "boy" and "girl" wouldn't fit (for example, when refering to teenagers, and sometimes to people i'd consider young adults).
so, what it is? does it mean something like "young person", or are people in japan considered kids for a longer time than american people?

it may have something to do with Japanese coming of age being 20 and not 18 like in UK/USA .. pure speculation on my part

dbh2ppa Wrote:the phrases 男の子 and 女の子, i used to think their meaning was the same as "boy" and "girl", but lately i've seen those phrases used in situations where "boy" and "girl" wouldn't fit (for example, when refering to teenagers, and sometimes to people i'd consider young adults).
so, what it is? does it mean something like "young person", or are people in japan considered kids for a longer time than american people?

They are not exactly the same as "boy" and "girl." One of the biggest reasons are the difference between cultures. Apparently word usages related to sex are one of the most difficult points to explain in another language. It's not feasible to describe everything in detail, so I'll only give a short explanation here:

The core meaning of 女の子 is a girl or girls in the sense of a female child/children. Female kids are 女の子. Female babies can also be referred to as 女の子.

The word can also refer to ladies or sometimes even middle age women. When 女の子 is used this way, most of the time the speaker is implying femininity, girlishness, etc. Nuances and connotations can vary depending on the sex of the speaker for obvious reasons. One of the realistic situations where you hear 女の子 as a lady/ladies is when a male employee/employer is talking about female colleagues as in うちの会社は優秀な女の子が多いよ (We have a lot of excellent female workers). You may also hear the word when guys are talking about "chicks."

The core meaning of 男の子 is the same as 女の子, and it means a boy/boys in the sense of a male child/children. Male kids are 男の子. Male babies can also be referred to as 男の子.

As is the case with 女の子, it can also be used when referring to young men. But this usage of 男の子 is relatively new and male speakers are less likely to use the word that way. Actually some dictionaries say women started using the second sense as the equivalent of the second meaning of 女の子. Male speakers might use 男の子 meaning young men, for example, when a professor is talking about his students. The point is that while the usage implies certain features of men, but the connotation is quite different from "manliness" in English and is more like "cute" as in "He's cute!" I'm a he so I could be totally wrong on this, though.

wat does this say?
むかし、むかし、ご存知のとおり、うさぎとかめは、山の上まで競争しました。

This wat i gotid you know the rabbit, Yamanoue, competed?:

A long time ago, as is known (as has been told), a rabbit and a turtle raced (litt: competed) to the top of the mountain.

Ryuuji Wrote:wat does this say?
むかし、むかし、ご存知のとおり、うさぎとかめは、山の上まで競争しました。

This wat i gotid you know the rabbit, Yamanoue, competed?:

It means "As you know, a long time ago a turtle and rabbit had a race to the top of a mountain."

Edit: I was 2 minutes late...

thanx guyz

How about this:
誰もが、うさぎの方がかめよりも早くそこに着くと思いました

magamo Wrote:The point is that while the usage implies certain features of men, but the connotation is quite different from "manliness" in English and is more like "cute" as in "He's cute!" I'm a he so I could be totally wrong on this, though.

To me 男の子 and 女の子 to refer to a young adult is pretty demeaning. People in higher positions (teachers, superiors, etc) usually say it to be condescending. It's not so bad when it's referring to a girl, but for a guy it's an insult to his masculinity and maturity.
Not everyone takes it that way, of course, and it depends on who uses it.

When an older person says it, it's okay, because from their viewpoint everyone is pretty young in comparison to themselves. But if it's someone your own age that says it, it's belittling. I'll smile if an elderly person calls me 女の子, but if it's someone near my age group, I'm likely to glare in response

Aijin Wrote:When an older person says it, it's okay, because from their viewpoint everyone is pretty young in comparison to themselves. But if it's someone your own age that says it, it's belittling. I'll smile if an elderly person calls me 女の子, but if it's someone near my age group, I'm likely to glare in response

so, it depends on the relative age between the person who says it and the one they're refering to, right?
thanks!

magamo Wrote:The core meaning of 女の子 is a girl or girls in the sense of a female child/children. Female kids are 女の子. Female babies can also be referred to as 女の子.

The word can also refer to ladies or sometimes even middle age women. When 女の子 is used this way, most of the time the speaker is implying femininity, girlishness, etc. Nuances and connotations can vary depending on the sex of the speaker for obvious reasons. One of the realistic situations where you hear 女の子 as a lady/ladies is when a male employee/employer is talking about female colleagues as in うちの会社は優秀な女の子が多いよ (We have a lot of excellent female workers). You may also hear the word when guys are talking about "chicks."

Japanese is very similar to my language in these concepts.

Native English speakers: how do you use the word "girl"? can't you describe a female in her twenties or thirties as a girl?

Social status factors into it too, but for me age is the main thing.

Ryuuji Wrote:How about this:
誰もが、うさぎの方がかめよりも早くそこに着くと思いました

"Everyone thought the hare would reach [the end/finish line] before the tortoise"