lagwagon555 Wrote:There is no more than reason. Well, of course what goes on in peoples minds is a different matter, but reality is most certainly objective. And not a single drop, not a SINGLE drop of knowledge has ever been added to the understanding of nature by anything except mans ability to reason.

So yes, reason is 'just' a tool of the mind, but if you believe reality is objective (if you believe the world exists, to put it another way..), it is the only tool you will ever need, and the only tool you should live by. If you want to live on earth, and not in the mind.

Reality may be objective, but the mind is not, or at least the view of the world in one's mind is not. The view of the world in one's mind is almost always subjective. The fact that many are in an irrational reactive state of mind is indicative of subjectiveness of the mind. Even mental objectivity is subjective. If you observe x+y=z, whether you chose to acknowledge it, on a universal scale, is virtually irrelevant.

When you break it all down at the end of the day all that's really important to an individual is how one feels.

The understanding of logic gives this man a feeling of superiority. The dismissal of it gives that man a deeper sense connection of the universe. The middle line is where many of the reactionary individuals lie.... i think.

I couldn't disagree more. How can dismissing logic in any way give you a deeper connection with the universe? How has an illogical thought ever given anyone any knowledge or understanding of anything?

And like I said, reason only needs to be lived by if you want to live on earth. You said that you think that reality is objective, which is a relief at least. But then how can you say that how a man chooses to perceive something is what matters? If you think reality is objective, if you think that you exist, and that A = A, but you chose to perceive things as you want, then that's just the equivalent of lying to yourself.

What is mind?

bodhisamaya Wrote:What is mind?

The thing you put over matter.

The last lecture of Randy Pausch is probably the most moving talk I have ever seen:

Proxx Wrote:The last lecture of Randy Pausch is probably the most moving talk I have ever seen:

I've seen this before. It is awesome and inspiring. For those that are left wondering, he passed away already. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Pausch

lagwagon555 Wrote:I couldn't disagree more. How can dismissing logic in any way give you a deeper connection with the universe?

The was an over generalization for brevity's sake.

lagwagon555 Wrote:How has an illogical thought ever given anyone any knowledge or understanding of anything?

And like I said, reason only needs to be lived by if you want to live on earth. You said that you think that reality is objective, which is a relief [(a feeling)] at least. But then how can you say that how a man chooses to perceive something is what matters? If you think reality is objective, if you think that you exist, and that A = A, but you chose to perceive things as you want, then that's just the equivalent of lying to yourself.

"Reality may be objective..." meaning it may or may not be. But an individuals reality is almost always wholly subjective.

How many people on this planet are truly honest with themselves? Even believing you are 100% honest with yourself is lying to yourself, because in order to be honest with yourself you must know yourself. How many people truly know themselves?

By accepting reality you are more than likely accepting a lie.

All that matters at the end of the day is how someone feels. Feelings dictate our actions and influence our perception.

I agree with most of the stuff you are saying. I think lagwagoon555 may have gotten an impression that you were in favor and support of spiritual experiences in the form of evidence to prove anything. Both of you actually agree. kazelee is not saying he believes in the spirit, aura and mind or anything like that.

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Found a great article on NYTimes about food:

Unhappy Meals, by MICHAEL POLLAN Published: January 28, 2007

Quote:Since nutrients, as compared with foods, are invisible and therefore slightly mysterious, it falls to the scientists (and to the journalists through whom the scientists speak) to explain the hidden reality of foods to us. To enter a world in which you dine on unseen nutrients, you need lots of expert help.

Quote:Another potentially serious weakness of nutritionist ideology is that it has trouble discerning qualitative distinctions between foods. So fish, beef and chicken through the nutritionists’ lens become mere delivery systems for varying quantities of fats and proteins and whatever other nutrients are on their scope. Similarly, any qualitative distinctions between processed foods and whole foods disappear when your focus is on quantifying the nutrients they contain (or, more precisely, the known nutrients).

My friend linked me this.. doesnt half make you feel insignificant.

about the universe, and how big it actually is.

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Great vid, thanks!

That picture of galaxies 47 billion light years away is mind boggling. That means it took 47 billion years for light from those galaxies to reach Earth. It is a picture of 47 billion years ago!

bodhisamaya Wrote:That picture of galaxies 47 billion light years away is mind boggling. That means it took 47 billion years for light from those galaxies to reach Earth. It is a picture of 47 billion years ago!

hehe it's not that much, but it's still mind boggling. The Universe started roughly 14 billion years ago, and the oldest galaxies formed shortly after. But those in the picture are still younger than that (wikipedia says from 12 billion light years down).
In any case, those numbers are faaar more than we can conceive.

The Universe is so huge there could be billions of civilizations out there and we would still have no chance of ever being able to contact any of them. But hopefully they are not that rare and we will at least get some sign of their presence.

Codexus Wrote:The Universe is so huge there could be billions of civilizations out there and we would still have no chance of ever being able to contact any of them. But hopefully they are not that rare and we will at least get some sign of their presence.

And contacting the wrong one could potentially be the greatest mistake humanity might ever make ...

I liked what we sent out with the Pioneer spacecrafts, but in the back of my mind I also wondered if we might not be sending out something akin to an advertisement saying, "Free food in abundance. Third rock from the Sun. Follow the map."

Given the state of nature on our own planet, it seems to me that it would be very naive to think that it would differ that much throughout the physical universe. One would like to believe otherwise of course, but one should probably be prepared to be disappointed, maybe dramatically so.

And if a really advanced civilization ever sees episodes of, say, "The Newlywed Game" that might be headed in their direction, they may decide we need to be put out of our misery, even if they don't view us as so much easy protein.

I must say i love the theory that other sentient life must be much more advanced than us.. how negative as a race are we
Personally I think i'd get a kick out of finding another Inhabited planet, only to find they were still cave dwellers beating each other to death with rocks.
If nothing it could provide answers to our own evolution. or just the fact it would invalidate every bad sci-fi tv show and movie ever made would be worth it.

It would be naive to think we are alone, but i seriously doubt we will ever come across anything, in our lifetimes and probably our childrens lifetimes at least.
Things seem to have stopped advancing.. where is the flying car, the transport tubes? I mean the biggest technological improvement we've had recently is what? an updated ipod? People aren't thinking big enough anymore imo.

Gingerninja Wrote:My friend linked me this.. doesnt half make you feel insignificant.

about the universe, and how big it actually is.

Awesome stuff. I looked at a book about the universe one time, and the section about how huge the universe is and how many galaxies there are out there was the most fascinating part. Same info as that video but with more perspective/details.

Gingerninja Wrote:Things seem to have stopped advancing.. where is the flying car, the transport tubes? I mean the biggest technological improvement we've had recently is what? an updated ipod? People aren't thinking big enough anymore imo.

Eh? Stopped advancing? There's no flying car because a flying car isn't profitable. LOL.

It is a liability issue I think. We have had ultra-light planes for years that are relatively cheap and easy to build. They are as close as one will ever feel to actually being a bird. They could easily be adapted for transportation purposes if we had the stomach for the initial carnage over the first few decades that would occur adjusting to this new form of commuting.

bodhisamaya Wrote:It is a liability issue I think. We have had ultra-light planes for years that are relatively cheap and easy to build. They are as close as one will ever feel to actually being a bird. They could easily be adapted for transportation purposes if we had the stomach for the initial carnage over the first few decades that would occur adjusting to this new form of commuting.

For some reason that word carnage makes me hungry.

It's George Jetson. His boy Elroy. Daughter Judy. Jane his wife...

The thought that there other intelligent life in this Universe does not frighten me. It's the thought that we are the only intelligent life in Universe that frightens me.

Imagine if only on this planet does this Universe perceive itself, and in so short a time it stops.

The Miss Universe pageant is rigged. A girl from Earth wins every year.

Gingerninja Wrote:Things seem to have stopped advancing.. where is the flying car

http://www.moller.com/newm400.htm

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Gingerninja Wrote:Things seem to have stopped advancing.. where is the flying car, the transport tubes? I mean the biggest technological improvement we've had recently is what? an updated ipod? People aren't thinking big enough anymore imo.

I've had similar thoughts for a long time. Recently I saw a televised debate in which one scientist was asked if he really believed we would travel to other planets in the not too distant future.

What he said was uplifting. But pardon me in advance if I am really vague..

Basically he said something like: this point we are at right now, we are actually on the verge of making many breakthroughs in physics, methematics, biology, even in the research about the nature of reality and consciousness. Think about the latest experiements in quantum physics, genetics, new sources of energy... We would seem to be in fact in a "dip", or "quiet before the storm". As has been seen in the past, there is some kind of cycle, this scientist explained, where new breakthroughs can bring monumental changes in society, and very rapidly, but then you have this long quiet where nothing seems to happen much.. until physics get rewritten and there is a "storm" of inventions again.