I guess I'd like to know first what the Japanese actually do in different situations. But then I'd like to know how to go about drawing nice looking kanji, besides using flat lines. For example, I just bought a handful of cheap Zebra super-fine point brush pens:

http://www.jetpens.com/index.php/cPath/221_501

but I'm not really sure if there's an angle I'm supposed to hold them at, when to push down and when to let up, and how to make the different shapes of lines.

I have this site in my tool bar all the time and it's pretty useful for both stroke order and for what it should look like.
http://www.yamasa.cc/members/ocjs/kanjid...3?OpenForm

On there, there is the one in the middle which I'm assuming I should be immitating. Or should I go with the cursive pic on the right?

I found a couple of videos of people doing large scale calligraphy. I think the main stroke I have a problem with is when it's one that goes diagonally down and to the right and ends with a kind of fat sweeping tail (like at the bottom of Summer.) I just tried it with a Elmers "paintastics" brush and I was able to do it easily. Hmm. Maybe that's just not something you're supposed to do with a superfine brush pen. I'm currently using graph paper that is 4 squares to the inch so I'm drawing inside a 1/2" x 1/2" square.

What do the Japanese do for normal writing?

edit: now that I've messed around a little more, I think these pens might be designed more for a 1/4" x 1/4" type characters, because the pressures involved at that scale seem to allow me to make the strokes, if I keep them really really thin. And hiragana at that scale with this pen looks really really nice.

edit2: with the paintastics brush, on a 3/4" 3/4" square, when you stop at the end of a horizontal line and go back a touch with the bruch it automatically makes those little peaks you see above the end of the line like in the mincho font. heh. cool.

On Yamasa, I try to imitate the one in the middle. Then by virtue of being human, and lazy what I write turns into the one on the right.

Large scale calligraphy isn't really applicable to hand writing. With the large scale stuff you're moving your whole arm, but handwriting is about finer movements.

The left and middle images are showing the printed version, and the one on the right is the handwritten version. Your kanji really aren't meant to look like the printed versions. You should be trying to imitate the one on the right.

Outside of proportions and accuracy, I wouldn't worry too much about your handwriting. Many many Japanese people have handwriting that's really really hard to read. It ends up looking more like the calligraphic version than a clear handwritten version.

Just practice alot, and you'll find that lots of radicals become second nature to you. The proportions are a little bit harder to get down, but you'll generally be okay. Don't be preoccupied with it. Concentrate on accuracy and proportions, the rest will follow.

Stroke order ends up informing the way your finished kanji will look. If you're having trouble making your kanji look right, check your stroke order again.

I was worrying about the same thing, until I accidentally showed a Taiwanese guy my kanji scribble pad the other day (it's on the back of a pad of paper I usually use), and he said 'oh wow, you can write all those, your handwriting looks really good'. My handwriting is terrible in English, so this was a nice turn around

EDIT: I just reread the first post, and actually realized I didn't really write a very relevant response. Although I'll leave it here anyway.

You just blew my mind. I was trying to figure out how to make my little writing look like beautiful calligraphy. I'd have to kind of relearn everything if I were to make it look like the stuff on the right. I started looking at them and most of them I could understand. (I also figured out I was doing Rice Field wrong!) Sun replaces two horizontal lines with a Z shape. Rice field has a vertical line, then the Z shape for the two lines. A mouth shape cuts corners. Take a look at this one:

http://www.yamasa.cc/members/ocjs/kanjid...enDocument

Ok, I can see the logic of this one, it's the mouth shapes again, and then it doesn't pick up the pen to go to the first line of the second "mouth." Then it trails up a little at the end because they're going to draw the long vertical line.

Should I switch to that style of writing? I'm having a kanji identity crisis.

edit: I've been checking it out as I go though, but this one threw me for a loop. This is the first one I've found so far where it looks like they've both changed the stroke order (in sheep, so that they could use the vertical line last) and then just kinda winged it for the left side of ego (aka hand fiesta, LOL.)

http://www.yamasa.cc/members/ocjs/kanjid...enDocument

Like I said in my first post, by virtue of being human and lazy, your writing will 'turn' into the 'hand-writing' picture on the right. (The reason they call it hand writing).

If you *try* to write in a hand writing style you won't get anywhere. Just learn the proper way. It's not that "he doesn't pick up the pen", the writer doesn't stop and think "Oh ok, now I'm nearing the second mouth, now at this time I should leave the pen dragging to give a hand writing look"
instead it's more like "ok ***** i can't be bothered picking up the pen because a) i'm human, and b) i'm in a hurry and i have to write this damn kanji down and think about the CONTENT i'm writing about instead of the god damn hand writing,

You think too much dude

I feel you bro, I figured about Yamasa not long ago when I had like 1000 characters. But ever since I have tried to make it look like the one on the right.

drivers99 Wrote:I've found so far where it looks like they've both changed the stroke order (in sheep, so that they could use the vertical line last) and then just kinda winged it for the left side of ego (aka hand fiesta, LOL.)

http://www.yamasa.cc/members/ocjs/kanji … enDocument

However I don't agree with the one on the right all the time. Like in this one, I actually prefer the way I do it, there are many "on the right" that just don't look better than what I have came up with.

I don't think this is a huge issue, just practice and more practice, that's it.

I make my writing look like the one on the left as much as possible. Rules or customs aside, and personal opinion only, the writing on the left is ugly. Ugly
I'm really picky with writing roman letter languages neatly too though, so its not just a matter of Kanji.