I came across this the other day and thought it has some pretty darn awesome potential. Basically it looks like a group of developers in the portable DS/PSP hacking and video game emulator scene got together with a company to develop a a Linux based open source hand held gaming/computing device. The result is called Open Pandora:





The specs are pretty awesome:

* ARM® Cortex™-A8 600Mhz+ CPU running Linux
* 430-MHz TMS320C64x+™ DSP Core
* PowerVR SGX OpenGL 2.0 ES compliant 3D hardware
* 800x480 4.3" 16.7 million colours touchscreen LCD
* Wifi 802.11b/g, Bluetooth & High Speed USB 2.0 Host
* Dual SDHC card slots & SVideo TV output
* Dual Analogue and Digital gaming controls
* 43 button QWERTY and numeric keypad
* Around 10+ Hours battery life

They say it is powerful enough to run games like Quake 3 which is quite impressive for something roughly the same size as a Nintendo DS. Throw in an open source Linux environment, Qwerty keyboard, touchscreen and controls that will allow you to play just about any video game you can emulate and I can see this becoming quite the formidable Japanese study tool/entertainment device.

Dear Internet:

Please stop talking about Open Pandora, because now that it finally looks like it's actually coming out after all these years I'm painfully aware of how much I can't afford it. Your words do nothing but make me remember this fact.

Selfishly,

Jonathan

There's always a device like this every couple of years. Something which is "better" than the competition but which is usually overpriced, under-supported, doesn't catch on and fails spectacularly. Anybody remember the Gizmondo?

harhol Wrote:There's always a device like this every couple of years. Something which is "better" than the competition but which is usually overpriced, under-supported, doesn't catch on and fails spectacularly. Anybody remember the Gizmondo?

Considering their target market is pretty much "people in the gp2x community who are disappointed in the direction the gp2x line is being taken", I'd say they probably won't care if it doesn't catch on with the masses, since that was never the point. They sold out the initial run of 4000 preorders stupid fast, so good for them.

harhol Wrote:There's always a device like this every couple of years. Something which is "better" than the competition but which is usually overpriced, under-supported, doesn't catch on and fails spectacularly. Anybody remember the Gizmondo?

Well since it runs Linux can it ever really be considered under supported?

activeaero Wrote:Well since it runs Linux can it ever really be considered under supported?

Most open source products are under supported. Being able to in theory go in an fix it yourself != support.

Quote:Most open source products are under supported. Being able to in theory go in an fix it yourself != support.

Actually, I wouldn't say that's the case any more for the mainstream apps. The problem is there will always be a -few- programs that you rely on that are under supported.

But enough digressing.... that thing actually looks pretty cool, however, if it's going to cost as much as an off-lease laptop with 3 times the power and a 15 inch screen I just can't justify the purchase.

shadysaint Wrote:But enough digressing.... that thing actually looks pretty cool, however, if it's going to cost as much as an off-lease laptop with 3 times the power and a 15 inch screen I just can't justify the purchase.

I don't really see how the products would be comparable. A 15 inch laptop can't be carried around like a Nintendo DS nor do I know of any that have touch screens and 9+ hr battery life at that price.

Shadysaint raises a good point though. It's obviously a good product and I know I'd want to use it all the time if a friend had one. But $330? There's no way I could ever justify spending that amount of money on something like this, especially when it doesn't appear to do anything that I can't already do using something else (e.g. I have a PSP to take care of emulation). Of course tech geeks will love it. But tech geeks don't determine the success or failure of a product - ordinary consumers do.

harhol Wrote:Shadysaint raises a good point though. It's obviously a good product and I know I'd want to use it all the time if a friend had one. But $330? There's no way I could ever justify spending that amount of money on something like this, especially when it doesn't appear to do anything that I can't already do using something else (e.g. I have a PSP to take care of emulation). Of course tech geeks will love it. But tech geeks don't determine the success or failure of a product - ordinary consumers do.

This thing blows the PSP out of the water in terms of processing power and will be able to run much more taxing applications, not to mention having a qwerty board and touch screen which a PSP lacks so I don't really get that comparison at all. Pandora can run a full fledged operating system and web browser, not some "Mobile" BS, which you can then browse through with a touch screen stylus. That alone puts it light years ahead of a PSP's horrendous web browsing interface (and yes I own a hacked 1st BIOS PSP).

You don't hear people complaining about spending nearly this much for Iphones/Ipod touches. Yes I understand it probably won't be a huge "mainstream" product but I'm not really sure how anyone could think it was overly expensive.

I'm not saying its inferior to the PSP or anything else (I've acknowledge that it's a good product). I'm just pointing out that its appeal is limited and the price compounds the problem. All of the things the Pandora does I can do elsewhere on a different platform (e.g. I can emulate on a PSP, I have a laptop for processing power and I can use my iPod touch if I ever need ultra-portable internet).

You can't compare it to the iPhone because a huge part of Apple's success is down to brand, image & marketing power rather than the product itself (I mean, the original iPod was one of the worst & most unreliable mp3 players out there). So far I don't see anything in the Pandora which will make ordinary people think, I need one of those. And, as the history of consumer electronics has shown, simply having the "better" product is never enough. Image is everything. So the fact that it looks like something from the mid-1990s won't help matters.

harhol Wrote:I'm not saying its inferior to the PSP or anything else (I've acknowledge that it's a good product). I'm just pointing out that its appeal is limited and the price compounds the problem. All of the things the Pandora does I can do elsewhere on a different platform (e.g. I can emulate on a PSP, I have a laptop for processing power and I can use my iPod touch if I ever need ultra-portable internet).

Right......but you can't do those things all at once on the same device, which is the main point.

And for something to be successful it doesn't have to appeal to the mainstream. I'd venture to say there is a pretty decent little niche market out there for a powerful open source portable device. As someone said earlier they've sold roughly 3,000-4,000 pre-production models to various developers which is pretty telling IMO.

activeaero Wrote:Right......but you can't do those things all at once on the same device, which is the main point.

I don't deny that. My point is that most people won't want to shell out $300+ for the privilege of being able to do so. Just look at the current games console war: the most basic machine with the least features is selling by the bucket-load while the most powerful & advanced machine with the most features is struggling to get off the ground. It's a similar situation in the portable market: the PSP is by far the better system but has never been able to compete with the DS. Not to mention the fact that all-in-one devices have a history of commercial failure. I just don't think people will want something like this, especially in the current economic climate. It could even struggle to many any kind of dent in the market, although that's highly unlikely.

activeaero Wrote:Right......but you can't do those things all at once on the same device, which is the main point.

And for something to be successful it doesn't have to appeal to the mainstream. I'd venture to say there is a pretty decent little niche market out there for a powerful open source portable device. As someone said earlier they've sold roughly 3,000-4,000 pre-production models to various developers which is pretty telling IMO.

It doesn't really tell anything. That 3000-4000 is probably pretty close to the total number of units they'll sell ever. Almost everyone who would want one of these is one of those "developers" (aka homebrewers or just people who want to run the eventual homebrew). It's the same story with the Gamepark units. At least this one runs linux so there is some chance that some SRS soft will get recompiled for it. An iPod touch is half the price, gets something like 48 hours of battery life, is much smaller and lighter, and already has 2 different Anki implementations though (and it runs *nix and you can homebrew on if you jailbreak too).

harhol Wrote:

activeaero Wrote:Right......but you can't do those things all at once on the same device, which is the main point.

I don't deny that. My point is that most people won't want to shell out $300+ for the privilege of being able to do so. Just look at the current games console war: the most basic machine with the least features is selling by the bucket-load while the most powerful & advanced machine with the most features is struggling to get off the ground. It's a similar situation in the portable market: the PSP is by far the better system but has never been able to compete with the DS. Not to mention the fact that all-in-one devices have a history of commercial failure. I just don't think people will want something like this, especially in the current economic climate. It could even struggle to many any kind of dent in the market, although that's highly unlikely.

Well that's all fine and well but it still doesn't take away from it's capabilities so I'm not exactly sure what argument you're making. Did I miss the post where I said this will be a commercial smash hit lol?

Jarvik7 Wrote:It doesn't really tell anything. That 3000-4000 is probably pretty close to the total number of units they'll sell ever. Almost everyone who would want one of these is one of those "developers" (aka homebrewers or just people who want to run the eventual homebrew). It's the same story with the Gamepark units. At least this one runs linux so there is some chance that some SRS soft will get recompiled for it. An iPod touch is half the price, gets something like 48 hours of battery life, is much smaller and lighter, and already has 2 different Anki implementations though (and it runs *nix and you can homebrew on if you jailbreak too).

Well considering 3k-4k was all they HAD to sell I'd say that statement is false. But once again why does that matter? I never get these types of arguments. It's like people just want to find a reason to not like something lol.

activeaero Wrote:

Jarvik7 Wrote:It doesn't really tell anything. That 3000-4000 is probably pretty close to the total number of units they'll sell ever. Almost everyone who would want one of these is one of those "developers" (aka homebrewers or just people who want to run the eventual homebrew). It's the same story with the Gamepark units. At least this one runs linux so there is some chance that some SRS soft will get recompiled for it. An iPod touch is half the price, gets something like 48 hours of battery life, is much smaller and lighter, and already has 2 different Anki implementations though (and it runs *nix and you can homebrew on if you jailbreak too).

Well considering 3k-4k was all they HAD to sell I'd say that statement is false. But once again why does that matter? I never get these types of arguments. It's like people just want to find a reason to not like something lol.

It matters in that encouraging people to buy a hobbyist device that will be very under-supported is unwise unless those same people want to be homebrew hobbyists themselves. It's like suggesting that people get involved in ham radio so that they can listen to NHK.

The only "potential" I see for this is for running more SNES emulators. iPhone/iPod has millions of jailbroken units out there but I still see no native compile of Anki or any other SRS on it. We just have two web browser based solutions (which are ok, but lack the newer scheduling systems).

Wow, thank you for this, I'm very interested in this device now.


But it looks like they haven't met mass production yet and it's been repeatedly delayed.

Jarvik7 Wrote:It matters in that encouraging people to buy a hobbyist device that will be very under-supported is unwise unless those same people want to be homebrew hobbyists themselves. It's like suggesting that people get involved in ham radio so that they can listen to NHK.

The only "potential" I see for this is for running more SNES emulators. iPhone/iPod has millions of jailbroken units out there but I still see no native compile of Anki or any other SRS on it. We just have two web browser based solutions (which are ok, but lack the newer scheduling systems).

Did you miss the part about this thing running full operating systems? People are running Ubuntu and Firefox 3 with this thing. The last time I checked those aren't exactly "hobbyist" applications. That means you can have the real deal version of Anki in your pocket or any other standard Linux application. You don't have to wait around until someone writes some special mobile version of your favorite application.

Calling this a hobbyist device because it happens to be open source is like calling a Linux desktop/laptop a hobbyist device lol. Can hobbyist take advantage of it extremely easy? Yes. Is that a good thing? Yes. Can you use it without being a leet haxorz? Yes.

For the most part anyone using Linux at home IS a hobbyist, or has a hobbyist relative who set everything up for them and hid all the sharp pointy objects so they don't hurt themselves in it.

Let's assume Anki WILL run on this thing without leet h4x0ring. Why bother unless you WANT to do some leet h4x0ring on it too? A netbook is faster, cheaper, and has a more well supported/standard hardware platform. If you want one of these anyways then by all means study on it, but I can't see any point in buying this specifically to study with it.

Jarvik7 Wrote:Let's assume Anki WILL run on this thing without leet h4x0ring. Why bother unless you WANT to do some leet h4x0ring on it too? A netbook is faster, cheaper, and has a more well supported/standard hardware platform. If you want one of these anyways then by all means study on it, but I can't see any point in buying this specifically to study with it.

Why run anything on an Iphone since a netbook can do it better and faster? Answer: A netbook can't fit in your pocket. Are you really comparing a netbook to something the size of a Nintendo DS?

And once again where did I say that one would only buy it specifically for studying? You seem to just be creating your own limited uses for the device so you can shoot it down.

You can use it to browse the internet from a full featured browser, you can run full applications on it, it has a touch screen in addition to a Qwerty board making it highly versatile, wide range of media capabilities with a widely used storage format (SD cards), a pretty darn powerful graphics engine, good battery life, and when you're done it folds up to roughly the same size as a Nintendo DS.

So the "point" of owning it would be for having a single device that functions as a good compromise between products like an IpodTouch and a netbook.

I don't care how much it costs I'm still getting one =D I just hope I can get one before they sell out =(

I mentioning it on this site just reduced my chances of getting one whilst they're still in stock =)

A Nintendo DS is too big to fit comfortably and securely in the pocket of any clothing I own, and this looks to be about double the thickness when closed. If I have to put it in a bag anyways I might as well go for that netbook.

As for the iPod, most people I know carry one around anyways, it's significantly smaller and lighter (than either a netbook or pandora), costs less, has a lot of developer support, and ALREADY has an EPWING reader, several officially ported pro dictionaries, SRS software, and other assorted Japanese learning softs.

While the Pandora may be able to run linux, it's still custom hardware and will need stuff to be ported specifically to it.

I thought this looked really awesome until I read something along the lines of "since this runs on an ARM processor only programs compiled specifically for an ARM processor will work". I think that was mentioned somewhere on their FAQ or something. But if thats true then...well it will only run programs specifically ported for it. And realistically, the number of programs ported is always going to be less than the number of programs you want it to run.

blackmacros Wrote:I thought this looked really awesome until I read something along the lines of "since this runs on an ARM processor only programs compiled specifically for an ARM processor will work". I think that was mentioned somewhere on their FAQ or something. But if thats true then...well it will only run programs specifically ported for it. And realistically, the number of programs ported is always going to be less than the number of programs you want it to run.

then fire up gcc and do it yourself.