(If there is a thread about this already, I couldn't find it)

So I'm only half-way through RTK1, but I love the method and want to continue it all the way to 3007. However, I think we all know there are simply more kanji out there than that. Has anyone ever ventured to continue the list, make a new deck starting at 3008, make new stories? I ask because if not I feel this is something I will have to do myself, since I desire to learn as many kanji as possible.

An example of what I'm talking about: 儘 (まま）, for anyone who has already studied grammar, you probably only see this word (meaning a state continues) as hiragana. And nowadays that is the M.O., but it wasn't always so. So for those of us interested in ye ancient texts (or one dating back 40, 50, 60 years), learning such kanji is important. (I ran into this in what appears to be a common-enough term, 我が儘, (わがまま）meaning selfish.)

Anyway, just thought I would inquire. This is a fantastic site and this whole methodology has changed the way I see kanji forever

I also saw that in 我が儘　in a sex machine guns song's lyrics

In the case of this particular word, perhaps the kanji is usually written; but that grammar point (when not isolated in a term) is almost always in hiragana, methinks.

Well, if you want to go on to take kanji kentei, level 1 covers a whopping 6,000 characters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji_kentei

Since you're in Tokyo, I'm sure you can find study materials covering all 6,000 at Bonjinsha or something. However, it seems it would be exceedingly difficult to come up with another 3,000 keywords. Maybe write Heisig a letter and ask for RtK volumes 4-6? :p

The New Nelson is probably your best bet, combined with the Kanji Kentei. The NJECD contains about 3500 characters (including variants) with keywords, but there's not going to be much new information there after RTK1+3.

EDIT: If you want to lead a collaborative project, I'm sure there would be interest here.

You don't need a list to learn more kanji, just learn them as you encounter them.

Katsuo posted a link in another thread to a google spreadsheet that he made that listed kanji for all 10 levels of the KanKen test. There is a column with the Heisig numbers so you can see quickly which kanji are not in RTK 1 or 3.

I wanted to also say thank you to Katsuo for all the data he kindly shares with us. We are lucky to have him on the forum.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p...yZHw&hl=en

Thanks for the information guys! If I get to 3007 and feel it necessary I may start my own "pseudo RTK-4" project, but that is at least 4 or 5 months off so for now I'll just walk the path already trodden.

Why not go all the way and learn all 80,000...

harhol Wrote:Why not go all the way and learn all 80,000...

I plan to, actually. I'll just keep studying em till the day I die!

I've been adding them to my Anki deck as I come across them for about a year now since I finished RTK1 and went on to sentences. I have about 30 non-heisig kanji in my deck. If someone sets up a google spreadsheet, I'll be happy to add my keywords and stories, or I can set one up myself when I find the time, won't be till the weekend though.

For keywords I generally use Jim Breen's Kanji Dictionary:

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-b...dic.cgi?1B

bennyb Wrote:

harhol Wrote:Why not go all the way and learn all 80,000...

I plan to, actually. I'll just keep studying em till the day I die!

Haha I love your enthusiasm. So why do you want to learn them all? What is the real motivation?

Please don't say "just because is fun".

jorgebucaran Wrote:

bennyb Wrote:

harhol Wrote:Why not go all the way and learn all 80,000...

I plan to, actually. I'll just keep studying em till the day I die!

Haha I love your enthusiasm. So why do you want to learn them all? What is the real motivation?

Please don't say "just because is fun".

I love the writing system, it's artistic and expressive in its own unique way, and carries subtleties much like English does that are only recognized by the "native speaker," or at least someone who has gone to great lengths to understand the language.

I don't know where I'm going with this yet for certain, but right now I'm studying for the JLPT 2級 in December, and since I've only been learning Japanese under 3 years I think it's a good short term goal. Long term I'd like to ideally go back to college and get my masters in something to do with classical Japanese - so I guess you could say my goal is to be able to read pre-WW2 Japanese texts. Heisig is a great foundation for me and I think I will keep carrying on with kanji stories, spatial memory etc. as it has greatly changed the way I look at learning languages.

And for whatever reason I've always been better at reading and written discourse in English, and Japanese feels the same.

That was far more detailed than anyone actually cares about, I'm sure.

haha no I think it's really cool you feel that way about kanji, and I must say I also share a passion for them. while I might not learn all 80 000, I do want to eventually know the 6000 of kanji kentei.

to anyone who may be reading this thread out of curiosity, here is what I'm doing. As was earlier suggested, I'm adding new kanji I come across to my anki RTK deck, and making up stories (Assuming I've already studied all the elements). Per example:

炒 stir-fry There is no few amount of restaurants that'll fire up some stir-fry for ya in New Orleans. Heisig Number 3008

箒 broom (more complex than the possible variant 帚) The maid uses a broom fashioned with bamboo to clean whilst wearing her dainty apron. However, she also uses her bamboo broom to beat cockroaches!! Heisig Number 3009

埃 dust particle [this kanji means both dust and one ten-billionth, hence keyword] Can't make a story yet since I haven't learned ALL the radicals. :/ 3010

皺 Something with Hobbes. Same situation as above, 3011

And so on. Perhaps after I've reached the peak (which I'm hoping to do by the end of this year) I'll have gathered up to 3100 or 3200 kanji, I'll get a kanji kentei book and start adding them in more systematically.

The real beauty about these "rarer" characters is just that: They are more rare, and tend to have much more static meanings, making story creation that much simpler!

fyi - someone started a similar project and posted his results (200 or so?) some time ago. I did a quick search, but unfortunately wasn't able to locate the list for you.

Also, you might find that as you advance in Japanese you won't need to rely on English keywords and stories for the new, rarer kanji. Instead, you'll immediately associate the kanji with the Japanese word and context you found it in. This isn't to suggest that you stop doing what you enjoy now, just that an attempt to RTK-ify a whole pile of them systematically might not be worth it in the long run.

But I agree, it's a joy to come across new kanji that are interesting or humorous when you break them into their component meanings.

Being the first Westerner to pass the Kanji Kentei Level 1 test, would surely mark a before and after for Japanese perceptions of gaijin potential. For someone mastering RtK 1-3 and moving to Japan permanently, would just be a matter of time.
Of course it's not practical to even attempt RtK 3 and there are better ways to spend one's limited studying time. New kanji are best studied as they are encountered, but that's besides the point. Some people are attracted to ambitious projects with clear objectives, specially where one can be a pioneer. I'm sure a forum for characters 3008 to 6000 would have plenty of contributors and great ideas, including some of the crucial new primitives.
I like to look up new words in English as they appear, but am also attracted by long lists, like one I downloaded recently of 5.000 SAT words. I guess this is a forum for the ambitious and the impatient ( "2000 kanji in five years? I think not!"), so it's not surprising.

I'm sure plenty of foreigners have already passed Kanji Kentei 1. Most of them are probably Chinese though.

Jarvik7 Wrote:I'm sure plenty of foreigners have already passed Kanji Kentei 1. Most of them are probably Chinese though.

Indeed. According to wikipedia, 15% of 2000 people pass it each year, so that's 300 persons. Not many, but enough to have westerners included I'd say. I mean, why wouldn't there be? There are western professors in sinograms etc, I'm sure they would be interested and capable.

I wonder who will be the first to have bragging rights for knowing the English "meaning" and writing of 6000 kanji? :/

炒 wasn't even in rtk3? That's ridiculous, it's super common. 箒 and 埃 are pretty common too.

Jarvik7 Wrote:炒 wasn't even in rtk3? That's ridiculous, it's super common. 箒 and 埃 are pretty common too.

That's what surprised me! So I think for static kanji such as those, or for birds or plants or the like, an RTK-style system is good.

And I appreciate everyone's feedback. I think the RTK method is good to a point, and perhaps context will overtake this method in the long run (Actually, it does seem very likely) but if I can build my own personal extra 4 or 500, it'll be a good use of my study time, I think.

Yes. Ask for Katsuo's "RTK4" list.

hehe jarvik7, nice biang biang noodle character

Any koohii staff here?

Could you develop a support for more than 3007 characters?

The new kanji could be added by users and the keywords could be taken from JMDict/EDICT and everyone could add their stories like now for the 3007 kanji.

Would be very handy and helpful, as each time users encounter a new kanji, they could just add a story for it in the koohii.