そこは、柔らかい緑の草が生えた、広くて素敵な庭でした。

"There, soft green grass grew" and "The garden was wide and beautiful/lovely." Yes?

I feel like I'm missing something, though. It feels like these are two separate sentences, where it is clearly one sentence.

Maybe someone can help explain.. thanks.

Maybe what the sentence is trying to say is "There, soft green grass grew, a lovely spacious garden". It is sort of like two sentences though, but it's probably just poetic license =D

That's what I was thinking, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something that would be apparent to someone more knowledgeable than I.

I'm thinking that 緑の草が生えた is modifying 庭. But when you abbreviate it to 緑の草が生えた庭でした, it sounds a bit odd to me.

yukamina Wrote:I'm thinking that 緑の草が生えた is modifying 庭. But when you abbreviate it to 緑の草が生えた庭でした, it sounds a bit odd to me.

No, I'd say this is more or less spot on. そこは definitely refers to 庭 and the grass is definitely springing up from the そこ

I'd say it was just one long sentence.

"There [that place] was a spacious and lovely garden where soft green grass grew."

Okay, I think I get it, thanks - and while we're at it...

天気予報によると今日午後から雨が降るぞうだ。

I pulled this from somewhere, I think maybe Kanji Odyssey... anyway.

降るぞうだ is more certain than 降るそうだ, right? I see the latter on news sites a lot.

zer0range Wrote:降るぞうだ is more certain than 降るそうだ, right? I see the latter on news sites a lot.

There's no such thing as ぞうだ, as far as I know. A typo, maybe?

Given the context of the sentence (relaying what the weather report says), I think it's definitely meant to be そうだ.

Okay, I was beginning to think that too... thanks!

ぞう exists. It may be dialectal, but I've heard it many times. 酒を飲むぞ
But I think it is only ぞ. Slap me if I'm wrong.

zer0range Wrote:そこは、柔らかい緑の草が生えた、広くて素敵な庭でした。

Lit: There, by way of vast and beautiful garden, grass of soft green grew did.

Soft green grass grew there in the vast & beautiful garden.

Just my take on it.

Most helpful, harhol, thank you. I think I'm still in that phase where my brain demands the Japanese be broken and shoved through the English sieve... at least for things more complex than X is Y, etc..

Just a word of warning: I did that using Rikaichan and Tae Kim. I'm by no means an expert, an intermediate or even an advanced beginner! The grammar doesn't seem to be that complicated, it's just that the words are in a weird order and the commas are confusing. But, as Mr. Kim says, particles are way more important than word order. The context particle で suggests that it must be "by way of vast & beautiful garden" and that した (did) must apply to the verb 生えた (grew) and not to 広くて素敵な庭 (vast & beautiful garden). The identifier particle が suggests to me that 柔らかい緑の草 (soft green grass) is the focus of the sentence. But this is just a complete novice's interpretation. I'm not 100% sure about した because it can also mean "caused" and "became" and "turned into" as well as "did"... perhaps the garden is acting on the grass or vice versa?

harhol Wrote:The context particle で suggests that it must be "by way of vast & beautiful garden" and that した (did) must apply to the verb 生えた (grew) and not to 広くて素敵な庭 (vast & beautiful garden).

でした = です in the past tense.

Quote:The identifier particle が suggests to me that 柔らかい緑の草 (soft green grass) is the focus of the sentence.

「柔らかい緑の草が生えた」 is just a subclause.
「庭です」 is the essential part.
Everything else is modifier.

((緑の草)が生えた)庭でした。
(広い)庭でした。
(素敵な)庭でした

The author used a comma and the continuative form of 広い to merge these sentences together.

((緑の草)が生えた)、(広くて素敵な)庭でした。

iSoron Wrote:でした = です in the past tense.

Ohhhh... (I wonder why that doesn't show up in Rikaichan... probably because it's so basic)
Well I told you I was a beginner

iSoron Wrote:「柔らかい緑の草が生えた」 is just a subclause.
「庭です」 is the essential part.
Everything else is modifier.

OK I see... thanks for the info. So the basic sentence is just "was garden" and everything else talks about it.

So if the [くて] ending wasn't used, would the sentence just be "there, soft green grass grew, [and] was vast & beautiful garden"? The grass would have nothing to do with the garden? But because [くて] is used, it joins the two clauses together and therefore turns the 'soft green grass grew' clause into a modifier of the garden as well as the 'vast & beautiful'...? So the sentence reads "there, was a garden [which was] vast & beautiful [where] soft green grass grew.

Again, thanks for the help.

If くて wasn't used, it would either be wrong （広い素敵な庭） or would have to be the other way around and with で （素敵で広い庭）. But the part about grass would still be talking about the garden. That's needed to join those two adjectives together, but not the other part.

柔らかい緑の草が生えた広い庭でした would be just the same (just not beautiful).

To split them into two sentences, you'd need to change the 生えた instead. Like:

緑の草が生えて、広くて素敵な庭でした　(Green grass grew [there], [and] it was a vast... )

mentat_kgs Wrote:ぞう exists. It may be dialectal, but I've heard it many times. 酒を飲むぞ
But I think it is only ぞ. Slap me if I'm wrong.

Correct, it's quite common. Especially the phrase 行くぞ, commonly used in anime.

A cooler version of よ, in a way.

You wouldn't hear だ after ぞ, though. ぞ goes at the end (～だぞ).

harhol Wrote:So if the [くて] ending wasn't used, would the sentence just be "there, soft green grass grew, [and] was vast & beautiful garden"? The grass would have nothing to do with the garden? But because [くて] is used, it joins the two clauses together and therefore turns the 'soft green grass grew' clause into a modifier of the garden as well as the 'vast & beautiful'...?

No, wait. To join 広い庭でした and 素敵な庭でした, you put 広い in the continuative form, which gives 広くて素敵な庭でした. Now, to join 緑の草が生えた庭でした and 広くて素敵な庭でした, you use a comma: 緑の草が生えた、広くて素敵な庭でした.

You can say that "the grass grew, the garden was vast" in a single compound sentence, but it would take a different grammar construction. 「草が生え、庭が広くて素敵でした」, I think, but I'm not very sure.

albion Wrote:緑の草が生えて、広くて素敵な庭でした　(Green grass grew [there], [and] it was a vast... )

Doesn't this imply some kind of relation (even if a weak relation) between the two clauses, like the garden was lovely because the green grass grew?

I can show that that's the reason it's nice. It felt a bit funny to me, but I was trying to force it into two sentences. I thought about …緑の草が生え、広くて素敵な庭でした but ended up just writing one.

そこは、柔らかい緑の草が生えた、広くて素敵な庭でした。

そこは広くて素敵な庭でした。柔らかい緑の草が生えた。

There was a lovely lawn. (There) soft and green grass grew.

There, (where) soft and green grass grew, was a lovely lawn.

Seems like an artistic combination of sentences to me.

So yeah, what IsORON said.

Okay, since you fine gents/ladies have been so helpful, here's another one. (Remember, it's your own fault for being helpful.)

まあ考えておきましょう

"I'll think about it." (according to Yahoo dictionary)

The part I'm uncertain about is おきましょう - Is this kinda like, "I'll put it under consideration" or "I'll give it some thought"?

Thanks.

ておく　is to show that the action is in preparation for something in the future, so it is like "I'll think about it (in preparation for whatever we're talking about)". Perhaps as "I'll think about it before I can give you an answer".

iSoron Wrote:No, wait. To join 広い庭でした and 素敵な庭でした, you put 広い in the continuative form, which gives 広くて素敵な庭でした. Now, to join 緑の草が生えた庭でした and 広くて素敵な庭でした, you use a comma: 緑の草が生えた、広くて素敵な庭でした.

Right. I was getting slightly confused because I remember Tae Kim saying you could string together adjectives before a noun in any order (e.g. 静かな高いビル). My mistake was not realising that this clause involved states of being (garden was ______ and [was]______, not simply ___________garden). I understand now.

So... I assume this is a correct sentence: 広い素敵な庭を見ました。

...because I'm not saying "garden was spacious and [was] lovely", just "saw spacious lovely garden".