Hey folks,

I am getting closer and closer to the end and I don't want to finish RevTK and start figuring out what to do next, how to do it, rather. I am following AJATT method for no particular reason (suggest me something else if you have tried something else) but in any case I just want to have a plan, a clear plan of what to do next and how to do it.

Yes, I realize this is very lazy, but I am sure many peeps in my same position will benefit from this. Also is an opportunity to talk about your own "way" of the method, or whatever it is you are using or used.

I'm almost half-way through RevTK now... going kinda slowly, but it's at a good pace for me.

Once I finish RevTK, I'm planning on continuing with my 漢字 reviews, sentences, and learning all the readings for the kanji.

I'll admit I've already started sentences - although the AJATT method (which I'm kinda doing as well) says to not do them until after RevTK, I went ahead and did it.

For kanji readings, I've decided to use something like the Kanji Town method - assigning a location to each ON reading, and placing all the kanji with that reading in that location so I'll remember them.

After that, I think it will just be a matter of thousands of sentences and movies and books.

Here's the plan I laid for my ex-wife and daughter:

1. KEEP UP YOUR REVIEWS OF RTK!!!!!!
2. Tae Kim Basic Grammar sentences (~180)
3. Smart.fm Core 2k Steps 1 and 2 (400)
4. Tae Kim Essential Grammar (~340)
5. Smart.fm Core 2k Steps 3 through 6 (about 800)
6. Tae Kim Special Expression (~240)
7. Smart.fm Core 2k 7 - 10 (800)

This should be about 300 to 400 hours worth of studying/reviewing. If you want more details on how I recommend to do each step, please ask. I recommend the above as it's minimal fuss, as mining sentences take effort and early on you worry about what's good..

Nukemarine Wrote:Here's the plan I laid for my ex-wife and daughter:

1. KEEP UP YOUR REVIEWS OF RTK!!!!!!
2. Tae Kim Basic Grammar sentences (~180)
3. Smart.fm Core 2k Steps 1 and 2 (400)
4. Tae Kim Essential Grammar (~340)
5. Smart.fm Core 2k Steps 3 through 6 (about 800)
6. Tae Kim Special Expression (~240)
7. Smart.fm Core 2k 7 - 10 (800)

This should be about 300 to 400 hours worth of studying/reviewing. If you want more details on how I recommend to do each step, please ask. I recommend the above as it's minimal fuss, as mining sentences take effort and early on you worry about what's good..

Nukemarine, do you know where any Tae Kim Anki decks might be lounging about? Been lookin' like the devil, but I can't seem to find any.

No reason I can't make my own I guess, but ...

Wally Wrote:Nukemarine, do you know where any Tae Kim Anki decks might be lounging about? Been lookin' like the devil, but I can't seem to find any.

No reason I can't make my own I guess, but ...

Wally,

I've got some files lying around on my laptop. I haven't checked them since I probably won't be using them and I can't remember where I got them, but it may help.

I put it on rapidshare, it says it can only be downloaded 10 times, I could reupload somewhere else if necessary.

Nukemarine Wrote:Here's the plan I laid for my ex-wife and daughter:

1. KEEP UP YOUR REVIEWS OF RTK!!!!!!
2. Tae Kim Basic Grammar sentences (~180)
3. Smart.fm Core 2k Steps 1 and 2 (400)
4. Tae Kim Essential Grammar (~340)
5. Smart.fm Core 2k Steps 3 through 6 (about 800)
6. Tae Kim Special Expression (~240)
7. Smart.fm Core 2k 7 - 10 (800)

This should be about 300 to 400 hours worth of studying/reviewing. If you want more details on how I recommend to do each step, please ask. I recommend the above as it's minimal fuss, as mining sentences take effort and early on you worry about what's good..

I've been wondering why all this fuss about tae kim ??? In JPLT terms and in general how would you assess each Tae kim step?
BTW Does everyone have dropped KO2001 to resort to smart core ? will I be the only one to finish the course in spite of all the collective effort ? I guess it has to do with the audio file still it's kind of sad....

nyquil Wrote:

Wally Wrote:Nukemarine, do you know where any Tae Kim Anki decks might be lounging about? Been lookin' like the devil, but I can't seem to find any.

No reason I can't make my own I guess, but ...

Wally,

I've got some files lying around on my laptop. I haven't checked them since I probably won't be using them and I can't remember where I got them, but it may help.

I put it on rapidshare, it says it can only be downloaded 10 times, I could reupload somewhere else if necessary.

Got it with no problem. Thanks!

Ghinzdra,

Not intending to start a flame war on which is the better source. I do think one should get basic grammar examples, basic vocabulary, more advanced grammar examples and more advanced vocabulary as a base line prior to mining enjoyable sources.

We now, thanks to all that collective effort, have many, many choices to get the above. Grammar example sentences can come from All about Particles, Japanese for Everyone, UBJG, Tae Kim or others. Vocabulary can come from iKnow, Tanuki, KO2001 or others. Example phrases can come from Making Out in Japanese or others.

I preferred Tae Kim as he seems to have a decent build-up, though UBJG can work just as well. I offer Tae Kim as the sentences are common license while UBJG is not. I don't know how it relates to JLPT, but it does get you into native material (well, it made reading manga and drama scripts easier for me).

The same goes with smart.fm sentences in part. They are common core license. The other reason I recommend Smart fm over KO2k1 sentences is the audio.

Anyway, it's all just a personal preference. I like that there's choice here that one can adapt based on their desires.

I don't intend to start a flamewar either....
it was just out of curiosity , you know.

ghinzdra Wrote:

Nukemarine Wrote:Here's the plan I laid for my ex-wife and daughter:

1. KEEP UP YOUR REVIEWS OF RTK!!!!!!
2. Tae Kim Basic Grammar sentences (~180)
3. Smart.fm Core 2k Steps 1 and 2 (400)
4. Tae Kim Essential Grammar (~340)
5. Smart.fm Core 2k Steps 3 through 6 (about 800)
6. Tae Kim Special Expression (~240)
7. Smart.fm Core 2k 7 - 10 (800)

This should be about 300 to 400 hours worth of studying/reviewing. If you want more details on how I recommend to do each step, please ask. I recommend the above as it's minimal fuss, as mining sentences take effort and early on you worry about what's good..

I've been wondering why all this fuss about tae kim ??? In JPLT terms and in general how would you assess each Tae kim step?
BTW Does everyone have dropped KO2001 to resort to smart core ? will I be the only one to finish the course in spite of all the collective effort ? I guess it has to do with the audio file still it's kind of sad....

In JLPT terms, Tae Kim is enough for JLPT3, more or less. It lacks some things and has some other things not on JLPT3, but in general, it should be enough.

I posted something simliar to this about a month ago, and the answers I got were similar. Kanji-Kana-grammar-sentences. Nukemarine amongst others posted some very useful stuff. I should be done with RTK in two weeks. THEN I have to learn kana, which should take a day. Then the Tae Kim Grammar, and THEN sentences. Looks like we're going at the same pace.

I just ordered RTK3 on amazon (along with Remembering the Hanzi - one of my sons sees me doing this and wants to learn Chinese, so I figured I'd do 5-10 a day with him over the summer). I figured I'd do RTK3 at my leisure. When I'm not cramming 50 kanji a day, I actually quite enjoy the process.

after RevTK.. hmmm

well i suppose ill
*finish up 'lets learn japanese' videos and start up on erin's challenge
*learn the readings by using a combination of
1)rosetta stone [i already own it.. i dont want to let the $ go on being wasted from lack of use]
2)JRPG.. its a video game for the PC that teaches the pronunciations of the kana and kanji.. its quite addicting..
3) that little mini show on TV japan that teaches kanji.. the old man is very endearing.
4)hiragana times (a magazine with furigana)
5)several graded japanese readers
6)kanji chains

* increase my vocabulary using a combination of
1)rosetta stone [yes evil Rosetta stone.. i already spent the money so i might as well use it] plus i actually find it to be quite good for learning nouns..
2) ANKI? well i want to find a deck for 501 japanese verbs.. plus some grammar.. im not especially fond of anki though..
3) good old fashioned textbooks and picture dictionaries

*i hope to start using GENKI textbooks..
*by the time im done with RevTK ill be in a japanese class at a university.
*after 1 year of university level classes i hope to go live in japan for a semester..

thats as far as ive thought it out

Thunk Wrote:THEN I have to learn kana, which should take a day.

I don't think so. Remember, kana are not made from primitives in the same way kanji are. Think of them as a LOAD of primitives you have to learn. It's not a problem since you will use kana every day and there's still some rules which apply, but giving it a day is probably not enough.

Tobberoth Wrote:

Thunk Wrote:THEN I have to learn kana, which should take a day.

I don't think so. Remember, kana are not made from primitives in the same way kanji are. Think of them as a LOAD of primitives you have to learn. It's not a problem since you will use kana every day and there's still some rules which apply, but giving it a day is probably not enough.

i learned hiragana in 10 hours..
i had "japanese hiragana for beginners" its got mnumonic flashcards in the back that are really good.. they have a little picture for each card..
http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Hiragana-...372&sr=8-1

so it is possible to learn hiragana in one day if you are willing to sprain your wrist.. i had to wear a wrist brace for 2 days because of flipping the cards constantly for hours without breaks..

so i think maybe like another day to learn katakana.. i found katakana much more difficult because i didnt see it as often so i kept forgetting and having to relearn

if a person studied for 20 hours straight maybe they could do it

Remembering the Kana by Heisig anyone?

I used it. worked pretty well if i say so myself. I also have a game on my mobile phone Hiragana recall.. just a little flash game that i used everytime i found myself with a spare 5 minutes sitting at work.
didnt have a katakana version.. i didnt put enough effort into the heisig method for it however.. so i've picked up through rote and proxy.. reading random things and figuring out what it says etc.

I made a physical deck of flashcards for hiragana and katakana. I learned them in 1 day, each. I reinforced them by writing them from memory and reading them a LOT.

I think, with such a small syllabary, just hard rote is easier. If you know all the kanji, kana should be no problem at ALL, as you're already familiar with all the shapes of katakana and hiragana will look somewhat similar.

The katakana version is pretty useless.. the stories are not all that memorable, and based on spelling, not general English pronunciation, which I found very annoying. It wasn't written by Heisig though, so maybe that's why. Remebering the Hiragana was excellent though, albeit short and obvious to anyone who has done RtK.

sethg Wrote:I think, with such a small syllabary, just hard rote is easier. If you know all the kanji, kana should be no problem at ALL, as you're already familiar with all the shapes of katakana and hiragana will look somewhat similar.

Yeah, I don't think there's any option other than rote learning. Rote memorization has the problem of taking a long time and falling from long-term memory, but it has the advantage that it's almost instantaneous, which is needed for an alphabet if you want to be able to read quickly.

jorgebucaran Wrote:AJATT method says you will pick up readings from context but still you are doing readings. What do you think about that?

How does exactly this loci method works? What do you mean by placing all the Kanji with certain ON reading in a location? What is a location?

Yeah, I guess I'm still swithering between just picking them up from context or trying to learn some of the readings...

So far, I'm not doing too well with picking up the readings from my Anki sentences. Even after reviewing a sentence multiple times, I'll come back to it and have forgotten one syllable, and that fails my whole card.

The way that I would do ON readings, if I decide to do that (which I think I will), is by following the Kanji Town/Kanji Chain method.

Basically, I'd create a "location" for each ON reading. It's a place that you encounter frequently or that is familiar to you, and you locate all your kanji with that ON reading there and create stories/mental images for why they're there. For example, one person used their university campus for ダイ. Then, I'd place all the kanji whose main ON reading is ダイ somewhere on the campus (for example) in a memorable way. Kind of visual memorisation, like RtK is at first.

I'm willing to listen to feedback from others on this - I know the opinions are pretty mixed.

When I had someone use Remembering the Kana, my process for them was a lesson a day while they were doing RevTK Lite. Then when she was finished both, she was to write a paragraph a day to keep up the practice.

After RTK Lite, she starts on sentences. Part of my process is you write out the entire sentence once when you add it. So depending on the pace, she could be writing upto 60 new sentences a day. Plenty of practice with kana that's has practical application (ie learning new sentences).

So far, she's done pretty well.

nyquil Wrote:

Wally Wrote:Nukemarine, do you know where any Tae Kim Anki decks might be lounging about? Been lookin' like the devil, but I can't seem to find any.

No reason I can't make my own I guess, but ...

Wally,

I've got some files lying around on my laptop. I haven't checked them since I probably won't be using them and I can't remember where I got them, but it may help.

I put it on rapidshare, it says it can only be downloaded 10 times, I could reupload somewhere else if necessary.

could you reup those files please?
i would really like a start on grammar srs

thanks

Here' are tae kim spreadsheets: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=T6PEQE9K

blurp76 Wrote:Here' are tae kim spreadsheets: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=T6PEQE9K

oh thank you.
so for spread sheets, i need to put them in anki?
thanks again

i tried to put the spread sheets in anki, it doesnt take them.
is there a different program to use them with?

You have to change the spreadsheet into a tabbed separated .txt file. Anki can import that.