今日は。

I started reading RTK1 last month.

Is there any significance in remembering the stroke count?

ありがとう、
Vishnu

No, there is no reason to actively memorize stroke count. By learning to write the Kanji correctly you'll learn the stroke count by default.

I also like to memorize the approx. surface area taken up by the lines when a kanji is written with a 0.7mm mechanical pencil.

It is equally useful as memorizing stroke counts.

Connoisseurs of Japanese scrabble find memorizing stroke count useful.




(Hint: there is no Japanese scrabble)

I find knowing and using the correct stroke order helps in several ways. If you use an electronic dictionary or DS game with writing pad, using the correct stroke order can make looking up kanji and compounds easier and faster. Using the correct stroke order can make your handwriting look more like it's supposed to look so it will likely be more readable. And knowing the stroke order can help when deciphering Japanese people's handwriting, though there is a limit there at which point you'll want to have knowledge of penmanship that helps decode the squiggles into the appropriate primitives. And for the past few months, having decided to memorize the stroke order from the beginning has helped tremendously with my calligraphy studies.

I kind of get what active said. You don't need to put lots of time in up front memorizing stroke order. The elements get reused and so you are constantly practicing and reinforcing stroke order. But it does take a conscious effort to begin using the correct stroke order. And as you go along, you might check back with the book occasionally to make sure the stroke order you've memorized matches the one from the book. I know there were a couple I misremembered. Also there are a couple that don't follow the original primitive's order but those are usually explained.

All that said, stroke order isn't necessary if you will mostly be using computers and printed text.

Based on your needs, decide whether or not stroke order is necessary or important for you.

If you know how to count, you shouldn't have to worry about memorizing stroke count. After RevTK, you should be able to write out the kanji correctly so you just count up the strokes as you write it out in the air, palm or paper. Since this is the way natives do it, I doubt it's bad advice.

It's important just to find a kanji. Knowing the radical and the stroke count reduces possible suspects.

Thanks activeaero, Jarvik7, welldone101 and Nukemarine for explaining about stroke count.

mattyjaddy thanks for your stroke order explanation. Yes, we can judge ones writing proficiency by looking how they write kanji.

Right now I am not concentrating on stroke count. I will add this in my study. I find memorizing stroke counts little difficulty. Is there any technique to remember kanji's stroke counts (RKSC)?

Stroke count is extremely important. Stroke count is the difference between the "walking legs" and the "taskmaster" primitive. It's a fact that if you write a kanji with too few or too many strokes, it will almost always be incorrect. Stroke order is less important, but since training stroke order teaches you the stroke count, it's something every beginner should do. Just because you think you kanji look like the ones you see in the book doesn't mean others will agree, the form and amount of strokes is very important.

[ファブリス]

Strokecount is derived from the primitives/radicals. For those situations where you want a strokecount quickly, first you need to have the exact kanji in mind. Mot of the time it's in front of your nose though. So then, if you want to count super fast you can memorize the stroke count per primitive. For example "box" is 3, "eye" is 5, "ear" is 6. One "sun" is 4 (box+1) two suns is 8, "risk" is sun+eye = 9, etc.

There are characters with an unusual stroke order, I think you will remember the stroke count from the stroke order then.

PS: the stroke count is shown on the RevTK flashcards because it is the quickest way to verify your answer, especially for complex characters. As you *write down* the character and see the primitives/story in your mind, you can count the strokes. Then you can quickly check that against the count on the flashcard. This is faster than visually comparing the character themselves. Then a quick glance at the character is usually sufficient.

mattyjaddy Wrote:I find knowing and using the correct stroke order helps in several ways. If you use an electronic dictionary or DS game with writing pad, using the correct stroke order can make looking up kanji and compounds easier and faster. Using the correct stroke order can make your handwriting look more like it's supposed to look so it will likely be more readable. And knowing the stroke order can help when deciphering Japanese people's handwriting, though there is a limit there at which point you'll want to have knowledge of penmanship that helps decode the squiggles into the appropriate primitives. And for the past few months, having decided to memorize the stroke order from the beginning has helped tremendously with my calligraphy studies.

No one is talking about stroke order.

Tobberoth Wrote:Stroke count is extremely important. Stroke count is the difference between the "walking legs" and the "taskmaster" primitive. It's a fact that if you write a kanji with too few or too many strokes, it will almost always be incorrect. Stroke order is less important, but since training stroke order teaches you the stroke count, it's something every beginner should do. Just because you think you kanji look like the ones you see in the book doesn't mean others will agree, the form and amount of strokes is very important.

While writing a kanji with the correct number of strokes is important (although the faster you write the more they blur together), it's still a complete waste of time to memorize the number of strokes in each kanji so that you can say "this has 17 strokes" just by looking at it, without mentally drawing it and counting it in your head.

Jarvik7 Wrote:No one is talking about stroke order.

Hahaha, I was about to say, "What on earth are you talking about!?", but then I realized... indeed... stroke order has nothing to do with it I guess I just see stroke and think "stroke order!!!"

Thanks ファブリス. Your idea is easy for me to think and retain.

Stroke count can be useful when looking up a forgotten or unknown kanji, but you can usually figure it out if you have some sense of the stroke order. Most kanji dictionaries have a stroke order index in case you don't know the radical or reading.

That said, I see no reason to memorize it.

I don't want to sound stupid but what is RevTK?

This website. Reviewing the Kanji.

gyuujuice Wrote:I don't want to sound stupid but what is RevTK?

Don't feel stupid. It took me quite some time before I finally realized that. Reminds me of the story for abbreviation, "There are so many, my *brain* can't remember *each* abbreviation I see!"

Kinda like KO2001. I didn't what the hell that was for a while

gyuujuice Wrote:I don't want to sound stupid but what is RevTK?

I didn't know either until recently, don't worry.

jorgebucaran Wrote:

gyuujuice Wrote:I don't want to sound stupid but what is RevTK?

I didn't know either until recently, don't worry.

And by the way, I think you give too much credit to Kanji and details. I think that all of this that we are doing is just tricking our brains to learn the Kanji faster than just by jamming it into our heads through cumbersome repetition. Really, Japanese and Chinese don't know stroke order always, stroke count, stories and sometimes they even forget the Kanji.

Source: I have 2 Chinese students.

RTK teaches you how to draw the kanji and their meaning. If one HAD to choose some extra info to learn for each character, then it'd be better to learn the readings (defeating the purpose of RTK, though). Learning the stroke count is like memorising the index of a book.