I don't get how St Bernard and two 'drops of' can be changed to St Bernard and teepee. The stroke order isn't even the same. I keep finding ones like this where, maybe they came from that combination at some point in history but they look very different, and more importantly the stroke order has changed. And from that second point of view I find the pairing very strange. Is there something I am missing in this pairing?
amber

AmberUK Wrote:I don't get how St Bernard and two 'drops of' can be changed to St Bernard and teepee. The stroke order isn't even the same. I keep finding ones like this where, maybe they came from that combination at some point in history but they look very different, and more importantly the stroke order has changed. And from that second point of view I find the pairing very strange. Is there something I am missing in this pairing?
amber

It simply looks like it and since visual memory is the strongest memory, it makes sense to use it to remember and make sense of the primitive.

Its funny. Because when I check if I know a kanji I write it with my finger. So often the stroke order is more important for me. This is also the case as, to look it up I use the Kodansha's kanji dictionary (SKIP codes) or radicals on Jim Breems site.

That's just something that Heisig made up so don't try too hard to find some sense in it. It's best to think of it as new primitive rather than a combination of previous ones or you could be tempted to write it in the wrong stroke order.

There are unfortunately quite a few pseudo-combination with a different stroke orders near the end of the book so be careful. For example "Condor" is particularly bad, Heisig says it's "vulture king mountain" but the stroke order makes it something like "vulture dry mountain".

I'm not sure if Heisig was originally mistaken about the stoke order (there are many stroke order mistakes in the books so that's possible) or if he just didn't care.

Its funny that his system is supposed to help you distinguish between different kanji. Yet he fudges it a bit. Unless you know every kanji there are this doesn't seem like a good idea.

Well, in the end, you will know most of the kanji you need to know and these things will become clear. No method is perfect, but just keep following along and if something doesn't work with your learning style, modify it and make it work.

Everything you learn about language, you or your teacher will have to "fudge a bit". This is because language is such a living, breathing thing. Language is not inherently mathematical and strict. It's only when we try to understand it and categorize it that it begins to appear mathematical... and thus grammar is born.

I can see where you're coming from, because I've thought similarly in the past. Just keep learning and don't pause to question the method intensely. Why not question it? Because there are tons of success stories of people who have learned at least 2042 kanji from this book on this site., and that's why you're using it, right? So just keep learning and don't dwell on methods.. dwell on taking in as much information as you can and try to enjoy the kanji and the Japanese.

End rant.

Great advice Sethg

I actually liked his choice for "pup tent" as the primitive for this one, somehow it has worked well for me in the long run.

Can anyone verify or debunk LazyNomad's bit on this below?

===
Trivia: The right primitive is kagaribi - 尞 - fuel used for sacrifices. I would use sacred bonfire as a primitive . (Mnemonic: Top is a merged image of big and fire - big sacred bonfire that looks like little sun). Story: Your colleague got fired literally... in a sacred bonfire by Mr.T.
===

I cannot locate that alleged kanji standalone in Breen or Yahoo Japan. I like the concept, but since I can't find the kanji I have some doubts.

Wally Wrote:Can anyone verify or debunk LazyNomad's bit on this below?

===
Trivia: The right primitive is kagaribi - 尞 - fuel used for sacrifices. I would use sacred bonfire as a primitive . (Mnemonic: Top is a merged image of big and fire - big sacred bonfire that looks like little sun). Story: Your colleague got fired literally... in a sacred bonfire by Mr.T.
===

I cannot locate that alleged kanji standalone in Breen or Yahoo Japan. I like the concept, but since I can't find the kanji I have some doubts.

According to my dictionary

尞

意味：

１．　燎に同じ。
２．　僚に通じる。

It says 燎 can be read as かがりび however I can't find any reference to "fuel used for sacrifices". Also the kanji for かがりび is the compound 篝火.

Wally Wrote:Can anyone verify or debunk LazyNomad's bit on this below?

===
Trivia: The right primitive is kagaribi - 尞 - fuel used for sacrifices. I would use sacred bonfire as a primitive . (Mnemonic: Top is a merged image of big and fire - big sacred bonfire that looks like little sun). Story: Your colleague got fired literally... in a sacred bonfire by Mr.T.
===

I cannot locate that alleged kanji standalone in Breen or Yahoo Japan. I like the concept, but since I can't find the kanji I have some doubts.

尞 is an alternative form of 燎, which does mean kagaribi. I don't know what the English equivalent of it, but according to my J-E dic, kagaribi is a watch fire build in an iron basket or a fire in an iron basket hung from the prow of a fishing boat to attract fish.

Hmm, Rikaichan is coming up with 'fuel used for sacrifices', ryou/kagaribi. Guess there's probably some basis, not sure how trustworthy (thought it just used EDICT?) it is though. Might as well go with it for story purposes, I guess.

Hmm, seems it's like a bonfire. There probably isn't a direct equivalent for the fishing fires, but Denshi Jisho suggests cresset as one option (a hanging light-giving brazier, apparently), which is a word I didn't know.
Oh, here's a pic of some cormorant fishers for better story images: http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs17/f/2007/1...tenshi.jpg

*Stops procrastinating and goes back to Kanji*