jorgebucaran Wrote:I think I am doing right propitiating such discussion. If I say bullshit is because I want to emphasize when I think someone is exaggerating, I think is a superb word and there is nothing wrong with that one. Other options are bushlips and boloni... but well, is this a wording problem?

I guess our main problem is that we all accept that they're telling the truth, that they've got dedication with learning kanji, and are willing to study for long periods every day, whereas you're not.

And yes, some people do find your choice of words very offensive.

There's enough people flaming the RtK method outside of this community - please don't let it happen inside as well.

>_> he says both truthful and, in my opinion, ignorant things a single post but I like jorgebucaran

Kanjimood did give substantial proof that he's not "bullshitting" anyone though. He told us how he manages the work load and showed us his anki stats

What more is there to it? It would be unreasonable to say that Kanjimood is lying to us. I think he should come back and reclaim his thread.

Who gives a shit whether or not he's telling the truth? I've done 100 kanji a day before, successfully (at the time, anyway; ended up "rebooting" due to a review blitz brought on by switching SRSs from Supermemo to Anki, which had no method of carrying over reviews; to anyone else who runs into this proble: just use both programs simultaneously). Given the long stretch of free time (Christmas vacation), I have no doubt that I could do 100 kanji a day again.

Anyway, what does it say about you that you would rather think that someone is lying for the sole purpose of inspiring awe from a tiny group on the Internet than believe that anyone could simply be better at studying kanji than you? What you don't seem to realize is that when you hit that X in the corner (which is red for 89.6% of you), everyone here effectively goes away. Even if he is lying, quit taking it so seriously. It isn't hurting anyone. 100 kanji a day has been done before. Find Wan Zafran's thread if you need "proof."

Well, I really don't know what to say to you.

Saying something is 'bullshit' isn't going to help anything. Of course, this isn't a perfect world. There are going to be some really negative "You're doing better than me, so therefore you are bullshitting everyone", just like you are.
I'm acknowledging that.
But what does bullshitting really help? No one.

This isn't a competition. If Kanjimood has a great system, then he has a great system. If he's bullshitting everyone, well, then we don't know. But I do know for one thing, that he isn't getting on here everyday to say "I'm better than you all, look at what I did today that you can never do in your life". He's just posting his stats and his progress. If it's all a lie, oh well. We don't know. It's certainly possible to puff up his stats and progress, but does it really help him? No.

"If you can say you don't have time to do something, then you have the time." - A quote from Khatzumoto, on his TkyoSam videos.

There are people who have time, but don't make the time, and there are people who you would think don't have time at all to complete what they have done/are doing, yet make time and still go through life without the scratches. There are no "talented" people, just people who have gotten 'used' to something. Kanjimood has a system he's executing, and he has made the time to make all this progress. Everything that he has done, or said he has done, is all possible. He doesn't say "I wack out 100 Kanji every day and can retain most of it, going through a Mountain Dew-enhanced 5-10 hour journey to kick all Kanji's tail, and still have l33t skittl3z to do 100 mor za NEXT DAI."

I mean, damn. If he wants to do 100 a day, let's cheer him on, and hope to continue out a similar success.

vgambit Wrote:What you don't seem to realize is that when you hit that red X in the top right corner, everyone here effectively goes away.

Not everyone uses Windows xd

Yeah, my X is white.

lets be truthful guys.. learning Japanese isnt a competition. No one is here to out-do each other. We are here because we follow the same method for learning these characters. and in the same.. swap info about other things we've come across to help. Your fluency in a language isnt affected by anyone elses ability. There will be no "Japanese language spoken by foreigners" league table posted.

Ideally we should all want more people to use this method, and join in the community and share resources if nothing but for selfish reasons. the more people, the more you can learn from others to improve yourself.

100 a day, do-able but in my situation not appropriate so i took my time and finished it anyway. did anyone learning it faster make them any better? is anyone who take more than me any worse.. we all finish. we all reach the same. If the end result is the same.. then don't worry about how others are doing. It's not a race.

Haha this is the second time someone calls me ignorant :lol: I would accept a bunch of other callings but I don't know if people is just been thoughtful and euphemistic in their wording or maybe they do think I am ignorant in which case I dare you to... nevermind

Well if KanjiMood is like me and have been reading these posts I bet he is doing 150 a day now. I honestly hope he does, that's the path of the real warrior, to struggle and fight all adversity. To overcome difficulties and stay focus when someones tries to unnerve you which after all was also one of my motivations to flame in here a bit.

Also, this discussion may be useful to other people, well I've said that before.

Cheers

stoked Wrote:Yeah, my X is white.

Chrome?

Thanks for the support everyone. I continue to post my progress and problems I encounter for two reasons. (1) To motivate myself and also to discuss what works and what doesn't - for me this is better than just lurking here. (2) I hope to aid the progress of others if possible - this means saying both good things and bad things about my progress. Honesty is the key. Though this is the Internet, so use your own judgement.

Brokenvai: That's great your trying something similar, I hope it works out for you. Here are some tips from my experience so far:

- It may take some characters a few days to settle in. I think learning should simply be a gentle absorbing experience, it does not need to be constant anguish over minor details.
- Review as much as you can. RevTk won't give you enough "natural" reviews if you are doing 100 a day. I just use both Anki and RevTk at the same time. Try to keep up with both.
- When you review try to write the characters down as much as possible. Mentally tracing a character is not always the same and you may even lose some self-discipline regarding primitive form variations, size, stroke order (if you're planning to write) etc.
- Make sure you write down your stories in someway. This helps the process a lot even if you find you don't need to refer to them (I hardly do).
- And most importantly, don't be afraid to fail!

And yeah, this isn't a competition.. People were speaking, reading and writing Japanese a long time ago and I won't be able to do any of those things fluently for awhile. The reason I do 100 characters a day is because I feel a strong urge to make up for time I've lost not learning Japanese, a language I always wanted to learn "someday" but never did. As I said before this is my first organised attempt at Japanese.

jorgebucaran Wrote:Well if KanjiMood is like me ....

But maybe Kanjimood is *not* like you. Don't know why that should upset you so...

Everyone has their own path and approach that works, good luck to both of you with whatever approach is proving most productive for you in learning the Kanji.

That's the goal we all have in common, right?

Harrow Wrote:

jorgebucaran Wrote:Well if KanjiMood is like me ....

But maybe Kanjimood is *not* like you. Don't know why that should upset you so...

Everyone has their own path and approach that works, good luck to both of you with whatever approach is proving most productive for you in learning the Kanji.

That's the goal we all have in common, right?

That's so out of context, did you read what I wrote? Nevermind. Thanks for the support though.

KanjiMood Wrote:And yeah, this isn't a competition.. People were speaking, reading and writing Japanese a long time ago and I won't be able to do any of those things fluently for awhile. The reason I do 100 characters a day is because I feel a strong urge to make up for time I've lost not learning Japanese, a language I always wanted to learn "someday" but never did. As I said before this is my first organised attempt at Japanese.

I didn't know this. I do relate with you on that about making up for the time you have not been doing what you have always wanted. I try not to do this, but I torture myself everyday for wasting so much time with my life in the past.

That's great motivation, in fact I started doing 50 Kanji a day since the flaming started like 3 days ago. :lol:

jorgebucaran Wrote:

Tobberoth Wrote:

jorgebucaran Wrote:24/7 anime immersion (just like a friend I have that claims he knows a lot Japanese just to watch anime but the truth is besides a few words that's bullshit)

You are probably the greatest bullshit story teller ever, maybe only after those self-proclaimed religious pundit and other fundamentalist morons.

Some people here are doing a misservice to others looking to actually learn Japanese.

It's a hyperbole, not bullshitting. Bullshitting would be saying he learned Japanese to JLPT1 level in 4 months. A flat out lie, more or less. Saying he has 24/7 anime immersion is just a hyperbole since we all know that's physically impossible since sleep, eating, going to the toilet etc factors in. He's just saying he's watching a lot of anime.

And at the same time doing 689 Kanji in a week.

Doing 689 kanji in a week isn't all that hard. It just takes some time... like 4 hours a day? Not impossible, that's the time spent a day doing studies in many universities. Why do you feel the need to call it bullshitting? Does it make you feel bad that they can do it and you can't? What proof do you have that they are exaggerating their results? From a logical standpoint, it's perfectly possible. If you can make a good, proper case as to why it's impossible, go right ahead! I would welcome such criticism. As it stands now, you're just a kid pouting in the corner because others are making faster progress than you are.

EDIT: I would also like to point out that no one has said doing 100 kanji each day is simple. We've just saying it isn't hard (as in complex), it just takes a LOT of dedication and time. Not everyone wants to spend 4 hours a day studying kanji. I sure don't. That doesn't mean it's alright to accuse them of bullshitting.

jorgebucaran Wrote:I quote: "And in terms of visualizing a story that should take all of maybe 30 seconds, seriously." Come on, he was trying to say that he could learn a Kanji in less than a minute. Yeah, the first 10 then what?

"You are probably the greatest bullshit story teller ever, maybe only after those self-proclaimed religious pundit and other fundamentalist morons." Yeah, he is the greatest, who can spend the whole day watching anime and still pull off ~700 Kanji in a week and everyone's cheering him up. Then someone said that it was a hyperbole. Alright, but how come the hyperbole is watching anime all day and not doing 700 Kanji a week. That is mindlessly choosing one over the other to follow the same thread.

1) I said I spend 30 seconds *visualising* the kanji. After that it takes me a while to enter the story and kanji into Anki and write it out once. So all up it comes to around 2 minutes per kanji, which is entirely in line with what a lot of other people in this thread have come up with. And of course it sometimes takes much longer than that. Yesterday it took me almost 10 minutes to come up with a story for "dissolve"; I had a serious mental block going on there.

2) I don't spend all day watching anime but I can tell you that when I wake up (usually around 9am) I press the play button on iTunes and start a loop of the audio track to the entire Death Note series. This plays continuously all day until I go to bed and pause it around 11. If I leave the house I almost always put my iPod on and listen to the same thing. So that comes out to around 14 hours of audio immersion every day. Certainly not 24 hours a day, but close enough (imo) for the "24/7" hyperbole to be valid.

685 kanji in a week is, however, not hyperbole. I happen to really enjoy learning Kanji and gave myself a goal of 6 weeks to finish the book in. I should make this schedule if all goes well.

julz6453 Wrote:@blackmacros: I wouldn't worry about the burn-out. You've got two choices, really - either press on like a trooper or be a wimp like me and take a break from kanji. (Just kidding.) But personally, I find it better not to force myself. I still do reviews as normal, but I don't force myself if I'm really burned out with new ones.

I think it should be ok, because I'm heading back to Uni tomorrow. This will force me back into a less rigorous pace, although I'm aiming at getting at least 75 kanji on my more laid back days.

ryuudou Wrote:Oh another question. For the beast that do 100 kanji/day how do you handle failed cards in Anki(the soon button I think)? It's confusing because on RevTK they don't get rescheduled for review but on Anki they automatically do.

I set Anki to "show failed cards soon", so by the end of a review session I've bascically gone over all my failed cards again.

Also @jorgebucaran I don't know what frame you are up to, but until at least frame 300 to 400 I was going at a *much* slower rate than I can now. It took me all that time to get used to the process. If you had told me I would be able to do 100 kanji/day before that point, I would not have believed you. Of course you *wouldn't* have told me, because you don't believe its possible- but thats beside the point ;-)

blackmacros Wrote:Also @jorgebucaran I don't know what frame you are up to, but until at least frame 300 to 400 I was going at a *much* slower rate than I can now. It took me all that time to get used to the process. If you had told me I would be able to do 100 kanji/day before that point, I would not have believed you. Of course you *wouldn't* have told me, because you don't believe its possible- but thats beside the point ;-)

This is a great topic you are bringing out. I came to realize this like a week ago or so and at around frame 1000. Actually since we have been arguing in this thread I have been doing 50-60 a day. The thing is, no one told it was possible so how could you know? I remember, when I was getting started I would freak out for 10 and 20 Kanji now that's not as half intimidating as before.

jorgebucaran Wrote:

blackmacros Wrote:Also @jorgebucaran I don't know what frame you are up to, but until at least frame 300 to 400 I was going at a *much* slower rate than I can now. It took me all that time to get used to the process. If you had told me I would be able to do 100 kanji/day before that point, I would not have believed you. Of course you *wouldn't* have told me, because you don't believe its possible- but thats beside the point ;-)

This is a great topic you are bringing out. I came to realize this like a week ago or so and at around frame 1000. Actually since we have been arguing in this thread I have been doing 50-60 a day. The thing is, no one told it was possible so how could you know? I remember, when I was getting started I would freak out for 10 and 20 Kanji now that's not as half intimidating as before.

Well there you go. And now take into account that I am on holiday and devoting all of my time to studying RtK, and its not so implausible to learn 100/day anymore, is it?

jorgebucaran Wrote:That's great motivation, in fact I started doing 50 Kanji a day since the flaming started like 3 days ago. :lol:

Only 50?

Clearly you are a wuss and inferior to the rest of us.

zer0range Wrote:

jorgebucaran Wrote:That's great motivation, in fact I started doing 50 Kanji a day since the flaming started like 3 days ago. :lol:

Only 50?

Clearly you are a wuss and inferior to the rest of us.

yeah, jorgebucaran is just a toal n00b

@KanjiMood- I may have missed this if you've already mentioned it, but what situation are you in right now? College student on holiday, full time employee etc? I'm managing 100 a day on holidays, so if you're not a college student on holiday like me I'm interested in knowing how you allocate your time throughout the day in order to learn 100.

Thanks :-)

After I found my groove, I reviewed 2 hours a day. When I was doing Kanji, that equated to about 25 to 30 new kanji which were added AFTER all my reviews. With 100 or so due cards per day and lots of missed cards, there meant about 1 hour of adding new cards.

If a person knows what they're doing, in the beginning you can add 100 cards (review story, initial review) in about 4 hours. That's what, once every 2 to 3 minutes? Then in 3 to 5 days the reviews start coming up. Review time will start cutting into adding new material time.

Now what can happen is people get stuck on adding the same amount of new stuff everyday (this happened to me). What this does is lead to way too many reviews which means more time than that initial 2 or 4 hours you started out doing.

The flame storm above not withstanding, the people posting they do 100 kanji a day without more info do new people a disservice. What are the results as time goes on? Basically, we see this:

Day 1 - 4 Hours, 00 Reviewed, 00 Studied (red stack), 100 New Cards
Day 2 - 4 hours, 00 Reviewed, 00 studied (red stack), 100 New cards
etc.

But we don't see this:

Day 18 - 4 hours, 300 Reviewed, 60 studied (red stack), 40 New Cards
Day 30 - 4 hours, 250 Reviews, 30 studied (red stack), 0 New cards

By this time, cards are just going into mature status (stack 5 or higher). At this spacing, I would say you really remember the kanji.

So, 100 a day is doable if you have the time. Just remember that soon the reviews and missed cards will begin to build up. Be mentally ready to reduce number of new cards to due to time spent reviewing due cards and studying missed ones.

Nukemarine Wrote:After I found my groove, I reviewed 2 hours a day. When I was doing Kanji, that equated to about 25 to 30 new kanji which were added AFTER all my reviews. With 100 or so due cards per day and lots of missed cards, there meant about 1 hour of adding new cards.

If a person knows what they're doing, in the beginning you can add 100 cards (review story, initial review) in about 4 hours. That's what, once every 2 to 3 minutes? Then in 3 to 5 days the reviews start coming up. Review time will start cutting into adding new material time.

Now what can happen is people get stuck on adding the same amount of new stuff everyday (this happened to me). What this does is lead to way too many reviews which means more time than that initial 2 or 4 hours you started out doing.

The flame storm above not withstanding, the people posting they do 100 kanji a day without more info do new people a disservice. What are the results as time goes on? Basically, we see this:

Day 1 - 4 Hours, 00 Reviewed, 00 Studied (red stack), 100 New Cards
Day 2 - 4 hours, 00 Reviewed, 00 studied (red stack), 100 New cards
etc.

But we don't see this:

Day 18 - 4 hours, 300 Reviewed, 60 studied (red stack), 40 New Cards
Day 30 - 4 hours, 250 Reviews, 30 studied (red stack), 0 New cards

By this time, cards are just going into mature status (stack 5 or higher). At this spacing, I would say you really remember the kanji.

So, 100 a day is doable if you have the time. Just remember that soon the reviews and missed cards will begin to build up. Be mentally ready to reduce number of new cards to due to time spent reviewing due cards and studying missed ones.

Today marks the end of my first week at a pace of 100/day. I set Anki to show new cards last, and limit it to showing me 100 new cards a day. It takes me an average of 1.2 hours per day to complete my reviews, according to Anki's stats. Today is my heaviest review day so far with 97 reviews of older cards, plus the 100 new cards to be reviewed- but I don't expect it to take me more than an hour and a half to get through. I already got through 50 of my reviews while taking the tram into the city on my study break in fact.

So yes, it is a bit misleading to say that "I can do 100 cards a day" and ignore review time- but I don't see an hour to an hour and a half review time as excessive. That brings the total time spent on kanji per day up to around 4 and a half to 5 hours. Very doable for a college student on break, and thats all I've ever claimed.

Tzadeck Wrote:

zer0range Wrote:

jorgebucaran Wrote:That's great motivation, in fact I started doing 50 Kanji a day since the flaming started like 3 days ago. :lol:

Only 50?

Clearly you are a wuss and inferior to the rest of us.

yeah, jorgebucaran is just a toal n00b

Hahaha :lol: good one.

blackmacros Wrote:Today marks the end of my first week at a pace of 100/day. I set Anki to show new cards last, and limit it to showing me 100 new cards a day. It takes me an average of 1.2 hours per day to complete my reviews, according to Anki's stats. Today is my heaviest review day so far with 97 reviews of older cards, plus the 100 new cards to be reviewed- but I don't expect it to take me more than an hour and a half to get through. I already got through 50 of my reviews while taking the tram into the city on my study break in fact.

So yes, it is a bit misleading to say that "I can do 100 cards a day" and ignore review time- but I don't see an hour to an hour and a half review time as excessive. That brings the total time spent on kanji per day up to around 4 and a half to 5 hours. Very doable for a college student on break, and thats all I've ever claimed.

Here's hoping you keep the pace. There's nothing wrong though with reviewing 4 hours a day and reducing how many new cards you add. Remember that based off a previous thread where a Anki test was done, reviews over time become about 10x what you add per day. So if you're adding 30 a day, expect in time to get 300 reviews. That 4 hours can become 6 or 7 hours.

With Kanji, adding time per day is not a big deal as you reach an end. However, I assume you'll be going on to learning Japanese (via sentences or some sort) and may want to keep this same pace. When that happens, you may want to set a hard time that you'll review each day. Now, that can change day by day, but let the time dictate how many reviews/new cards you do. Don't let the reviews dictate the time.

Plus, if you can, give us a heads up when 90% of your cards mature. Perhaps post a photo of your review and time graph from Anki during that time frame.

Nukemarine Wrote:Here's hoping you keep the pace. There's nothing wrong though with reviewing 4 hours a day and reducing how many new cards you add. Remember that based off a previous thread where a Anki test was done, reviews over time become about 10x what you add per day. So if you're adding 30 a day, expect in time to get 300 reviews. That 4 hours can become 6 or 7 hours.

With Kanji, adding time per day is not a big deal as you reach an end. However, I assume you'll be going on to learning Japanese (via sentences or some sort) and may want to keep this same pace. When that happens, you may want to set a hard time that you'll review each day. Now, that can change day by day, but let the time dictate how many reviews/new cards you do. Don't let the reviews dictate the time.

Plus, if you can, give us a heads up when 90% of your cards mature. Perhaps post a photo of your review and time graph from Anki during that time frame.

Well I will be starting Uni again as of tomorrow, so I expect this pace to drop off somewhat. I'll still be aiming at an average of at least 50 kanji/day over the course of a week though. Plus, after I finish RtK I'll be moving onto mining sentences and I don't think I'll get through anywhere near 100 sentences a day. Basically, I'm not too worried about the reviews piling up because I know this pace isn't going to be for much longer.

Good point on having a set amount of time to spend reviewing, instead of letting the quantity of reviews set my time. I will definitely keep that in mind once things start to get a bit more hectic.

I'm not sure how long it takes for a card to become mature in Anki. My graphs say I'm 25 days in, with 0 mature cards- but I'll try and keep you updated :-)