http://www.mogulus.com/

Looks to have quite a few Japanese channels. In addition there's

http://www.mogulus.com/animellive

Which has MANY anime on demand. Sadly it's with English subtitles, but that's easy to cover up.

Nice. I was able to watch Deathnote for free.

I had to put business cards on the lower part of my computer screen to block the subtitles

Thanks Nukemarine, that looks excellent. This forum always has the best resource suggestions. I have already noticed a ton of Anime I would like to watch, so I foresee a lot of distraction from more traditional study effort.

Tourne, I've been playing my videos in the upper left corner of my monitor at all times. Being distracted by Japanese shows is not a real distraction :^D

It made me notice that when my TV was on random shows (broadcasts), I'd tune out the 'noise'. When I looped a video I liked in the corner, I began to notice it more and more. Guess it goes WAY BACK to Khatzumoto's suggestion of looping the DVD movie.

Theasianpleaser, I don't know how to do it, but if you have a "window" that is set to "always on top", you can use that to cover up subtitles. I just use a regular window and put it above the video window.

So, are there any good channels? It lacks all the good stuff from keyhole TV like TV Asahi, NHK etc...

Nukemarine Wrote:Theasianpleaser, I don't know how to do it, but if you have a "window" that is set to "always on top", you can use that to cover up subtitles. I just use a regular window and put it above the video window.

In KDE, that's as simple as selecting it from the menu on the upper-left corner button.

In Windows, you need some help. Last I checked, nVidia had a way of doing that if you're using their card/drivers.

It comes in handy enough that it's worth investigating, really.

As in KDE, it's automatically enabled for all applications in GNOME by using the right-click menu.

oo, they just showed an anime called Kino's Journey. Looks interesting.

My Japanese skills aren't good enough for watching without subtitles yet, so this is perfect.

Thanks for linking this.

cerulean Wrote:oo, they just showed an anime called Kino's Journey. Looks interesting.

My Japanese skills aren't good enough for watching without subtitles yet, so this is perfect.

Thanks for linking this.

My recommendation (I'm not fluent, so add lots of salt) is watch only once with English subtitles to get the idea what's going on. After that, make it a point to never use them for that movie or show. If you do use subtitles, Japanese kanji are best after that.

For what it's worth, my problem was I did not rewatch the dramas after watching them with subtitles. So if you can set it on loop, you might get a better listening benefit from it.

I agree, but it depends on what you're looking for. You can probably learn plenty of Japanese with the aid of subs, so if that's what you want, hey. But, it doesn't do much for listening comprehension. Subs of either kind, really; you're still reading more than listening as long as there are subs (at least if you're me). And if you encounter subs or transcriptions FIRST, you're consciously listening for things you know are coming. It's just not the same skill as processing language as it's being spoken.

QuackingShoe Wrote:And if you encounter subs or transcriptions FIRST, you're consciously listening for things you know are coming. It's just not the same skill as processing language as it's being spoken.

Depending on your level, that might be preferable. At my level, it probably is. Much higher than where I'm at and it would not help much at all.

Nukemarine Wrote:http://www.mogulus.com/
In addition there's

http://www.mogulus.com/animellive

Looks like this essentially died the day you posted it Nukemarine. Now capped at 50 viewers, so it's effectively impossible to view anything. What a disappointment.

Well, I did get the link off the Japundit rss feed so many people saw it.

There is a "waiting room" for the Animellive with about 4 series (complete) that can be viewed. GTO, Lucky Star, Ichigo and Excel Saga.

Plus, there are other channels with live Japanese content.

As for the listening, well, I'll leave that debate as it's going to boil down to individual preference. Are you cheating yourself? I don't know. Watching a movie in Japanese that you saw once with English subtitles? Watching a movie dubbed into Japanese? Watching a movie based off a manga you read? Watching with Japanese subs? Hell, just watching the movie (visual cues to what the dialogue is about)? Watching the movie multiple times?

People are going to approach these all different ways. Ok, I may "only" get 80% comprehension, but "only" when I have Japanese subs but that's a damn site better than I was a year ago.

http://www.tvants.com

...Should the website ever work again....that is...

http://wwitv.com/portal.htm

tokyostyle Wrote:I certainly won't be going out of my way to find dubs, but it was fun once.

I had a similar experience with Harry Potter. While I don't actually have the lines memorized, I know the first movie pretty well from having read the book a couple times and watched the movie 3 or 4 times.

While I'll admit I watched it with subs, at the end of the movie, I had the same conclusion: I didn't learn anything. Nothing!

I picked up a lot more from random Anime with subs than from the movie. Probably because I already knew everything that was going on and felt no need to try to figure anything out.

I'm not upset I bought it (I got a good price on the bilingual Bluray edition) I won't be seeking out any others in the future, unless they're also a good deal and bilingual.

I'm personally very picked with my output. It's kind of odd, it was reading AJATT that I first started to think about only learning japanese form proper native Japanese. Not mining tanaka corpus etc. Then I suddenly noticed that Khazu even RECOMMENDS reading bilingual books, watching shows dubbed into Japanese... is it just me, or has he misunderstood his own concept? A book translated from English into Japanese isn't native Japanese. Watching Star Trek dubbed into Japanese is NOT good natural input. He of all people should know.

I've been having different experiences then. I've been looping shows like Monsters Inc., Shawshank Redemption, Nottinghill, Toy Story, Harry Potter (all five) etc. and found it enjoyable.

Did I learn something new? Maybe not. It's me listening to Japanese and paying attention to it. Maybe it was 2 hours of reinforcement in a language while enjoying myself. I was repeating lines on top of that.

As for good deals, yeah, they were rentals that I copied. Can't see paying 30 dollars or equivalent in yen for a dubbed version.

Tobberoth, it's still good Japanese. The translations are done by Japanese. You have to know Japanese to understand it. Yeah, there's bound to be bad dubs the equivalent of our bad dubs into English (or Swedish in your case). Still, it's Japanese. It's Japanese in the form of material you're familiar with and enjoyed when you saw it in your native language. That means you're paying attention and not tuning it out.

Tobberoth Wrote:He of all people should know.

I find his writings to be ... Scattered. It's almost stream-of-consciousness.

As for sticking with legit Japanese input... I think as long as you understand that what you're hearing might be a bit off, and you do have real input as well... It should all be fine.

It's like learning from Anime: If all you watch is Anime, you'll sound like an Anime character. Imagine if people learned English from cartoons!

I disagree, Tobberoth.
Do they dub American movies in Swedish? They do it in Italian and the language they contain is perfectly healthy and I'd recommend it to anyone studying Italian without hesitation.
Of course a lot is lost in translation, but that doesn't mean that the final product uses wrong language.
I don't know about the quality of Japanese dubs, but I wouldn't think it's so bad as to become a hindrance to learning.

nac_est Wrote:I don't know about the quality of Japanese dubs, but I wouldn't think it's so bad as to become a hindrance to learning.

When they started translating books from English to Japanese, they would use 'he' and 'she' a lot even though it wasn't used much in 'real Japanese'. Now the language has actually changed some because of it.

Those kinds of things are what we are being warned about. They're perfectly valid Japanese, it's just that the language isn't normally used like that.

The bilingual books I use are written in Japanese first (by real life japanese authors) and translated into English on the other page. I usually ignore the translations though.

nac_est Wrote:I disagree, Tobberoth.
Do they dub American movies in Swedish? They do it in Italian and the language they contain is perfectly healthy and I'd recommend it to anyone studying Italian without hesitation.
Of course a lot is lost in translation, but that doesn't mean that the final product uses wrong language.
I don't know about the quality of Japanese dubs, but I wouldn't think it's so bad as to become a hindrance to learning.

You think Italian dubs are good for students but that's because you're italian. Same as me, I'm fluent in English so I don't see the problem with English dubs. However, it's not the same for a student. When you're learning a language, you will mimic what you hear (that's the whole point of AJATT rememeber? Don't translate, imitate.) Imitating non-natural sources isn't a good idea. English translated to Japanese, even by natives, is not natural. It's English soundning. That's why the posts at slashdots are so easy to read: it's English with Japanese words.

Khazu says listening and learning from non-natural Japanese sources = you speaking unnatural Japanese. Thus it would be a very bad idea to learn from translations.

Tobberoth Wrote:Imitating non-natural sources isn't a good idea. English translated to Japanese, even by natives, is not natural. It's English soundning.

I tend to agree. I would never recommend anyone to learn Portuguese from reading translated books. While most translations are grammatically correct, they usually lack the flow of good books written by good native writers. There are, of course, great translators and great translations, but they are few and far between.

> tobberoth

Actually I have been worried about the issue you raised for quite a while now....I spent some money on american movie japanese dubbed like matrix , lethal weapon , etc.... but I keep wondering "to what extent is it really natural ?" I tried to alleviate my worries by telling me that it wasn't my only input source ,that I was listening anime , japanese news , drama and so on .... . Still it's nagging me .

But your last sentence confused me : you say that Khatz disapproves of non-natural japanese source . I clearly remember Khatz himself talked about buying his favorite show in japanese/chinese though : will smith movies ,toy story , etc...

Is he advocating for a mix (the same way I'm doing) ? did I miss his point ? does he contradicte himself ?