Has anyone here passed Level 1 solely through self study without ever having set foot in Japan? By that I mean only by working through test prep materials, lots of reading, watching Japanese films and tv, etc. No classes, no Japanese friends, family, or other personal interaction with native Japanese speakers.

Also, did Khatzsumoto ever say he took the exam?

My goal is to pass JLPT1 this year (December, right?) without studying for it, based on purely self-studying Japanese. I might 'cheat' though and study actual JLPT materials like a month beforehand, since it's only once a year after all, and costs money I presume to take the test. Depends on how good I think I am by then.

Why would your goal be to do it without studying official materials? How does that help you?

From what I know, Khazu has never stated if he took the test (I would like to know his score otherwise). What I do know is that he had personal interaction with natives, so he wouldn't fit the description anyway.

Jawful Wrote:Why would your goal be to do it without studying official materials? How does that help you?

Just for kicks.

Fair enough! Have fun.

I took JLPT1 last year by self study. But whether I pass or not that's a different matter. ;_; Didn't study enough.
But when I did the past exams, I got around 60-70%.
I think it's possible if you have self discipline and study specifically for the exam.
ie. learn all the grammars, vocabs, kanji
And of course, read and listen to Japanese media.
Get used to the exam styles as well. But I'm not sure if they're changing the style this year or next year (?).

The JLPT, like other aptitude tests, is pretty much designed to make you study specifically for it, rather than actually testing your general aptitude. While it's not impossible to pass it without using specific study materials, it's going to be overly hard.

Now, self-study... That doesn't actually preclude using study materials. It just means you didn't take a class in the subject, ever. That's actually the course I'm on because I wasn't able to find a course locally when I wanted one, and now that my job has started to consider a language course sponsorship, I don't want it. My progress is much greater than a class ever would be and would just slow me down. (Especially since I'd probably have to drive an hour each way to get to it 3 times a week. That's 6 hours a week I could study/read/watch with instead, beyond the hours taken directly by the class, where I would sit and watch everyone struggle with kana for weeks.)

While I might agree that self study is not using directed classes, what does not interacting with native Japanese have to do as a disqualifier? In the age of virtually free world wide communication on the internet, it would go against the idea of self study to NOT at least try to develop Japanese friendship via e-mail, blogs and Skype. Yeah, yeah, you'll have morons that go "Well of course you're fluent, you have a Japanese girlfriend." which casually ignores all the non-fluent guys with Japanese girlfriends.

Khatzumoto I think screamed (ok, he posted a topic about it) about the idiocy that is the JLPT (ok, pretty much any "aptitude" test). So, I don't think he took it else he would have posted something about it.

To be honest, I'm looking forward to how well Alyks will do come Mar 2010 (his 18 month mark). Yeah, he's not using these forums now due to the high level of negative postings, but I hope he comes back now and again. Seeing that Alyks pretty much fits your "conditions", he might give it a go.

Oh yeah, does he have to take the "actual" JLPT? Reason I ask is that anyone that makes an effort with self-study realizes there's little point in taking the actual JLPT without immediate reasons (ie, the job you are ACTIVELY pursuing requires it as a pre-requisite).

Personally, I'm horrible at self-motivation so I like classes. But the only class I've actually taken in the last 3 years was a 1 month intensive course a year and a half ago (which was really nice, btw).

So next is signing up for these tests. I don't want to fail so I put time and effort into studying. It doesn't go to waste as I live in Japan and speak on a daily basis. That's how I study.

When I was back home, though, I had no motivation and didn't study at all. Even at uni when I was taking a class. So for me, not being in Japan pretty much kept me from improving in any meaningful way.

For me, I don't really care about the JLPT, but I'm interested in just how much I (in hindsight) would need to study for it in addition to studying Japanese, if only because of my feelings about quantifying knowledge in general, and to compare my results against previous arguments about the merits of the test and its role in obtaining Japanese proficiency and in 'recognizing' the results.

I could find this out by checking out previous exams, but I decided to make it into a fun game by doing it 'officially'--that way, I'm investing money and effort into this once a year exam under specific conditions that will have results recognized by others--which may or may not be useful, but I'm also not too pressured because I'm learning Japanese anyway and don't really care whether I have a certificate... normally I'd be against depriving myself of any resource when doing self-study, but I figure for the sake of the experiment it won't be bad to avoid JLPT materials despite what overlap they might have with other Japanese topics--as I can obtain that elsewhere--though I may compromise towards the end and take a practice test or something.

I'm pretty sure Khatz didn't pass the JPLT.... because he clearly stated that he always at trouble with tests (no specifically JPLT )and didn't like them . But when you're able to read 4000 kanjis and are able to correct the japanese themselves I don't think the JPLT is really a problem.... I guess in terms of "skills" (knowledge of the exam) he would be likely to be handicapped compared to a guy studying for the exam but in terms of raw power (knowledge of the language) he's so strong that it would make up for that .

ghinzdra Wrote:and are able to correct the japanese themselves I don't think the JPLT is really a problem....

I can do this and I wouldn't stand a chance at JLPT1 at this moment. It's actually fairly easy to correct natives if you have studied a language formally. I know the grammatical rules, they don't. They go by feeling, "this feels right" while I can go by rules "Sure it does, but it's wrong".

It sounds odd and backwards but that's how languages work.

Yeah, my English gets corrected from time to time at work. It's obnoxious.

Jawful Wrote:Why would your goal be to do it without studying official materials? How does that help you?

Erm, learn actual Japanese?

I'll probably do it this year. I'm not doing specific study. I never stepped inside a Japanese class and I have contact with natives 2-3 times/month, in the internet, by text chat.

sheetz Wrote:Also, did Khatzsumoto ever say he took the exam?

He once stated they are a giant waste of time if I remember correctly. So chances are pretty low.

I never make mistakes in English, unless I do so deliberately in order to invent a new rule to be written in descriptive grammar texts. ;p

Ben_Nielson Wrote:Yeah, my English gets corrected from time to time at work. It's obnoxious.

The chances of your English being corrected on the internet are exponentially proportional to the amount of posts you make.

Yes, it's very obnoxious.

I passed Level 2 solely through self-study outside of Japan two years ago. Can't be bothered to take Level 1 as by now I have managed to pass some work-related exams for Japanese in Japanese so the real challenge is no longer there. In fact, the necessity of going through a large amount of stuff in a limited amount of time has had a great side effect of teaching me to quickly scan Japanese texts picking out the essential - something I was worried I was never going to be able to do...

However. I am a big fan of Unicom books and am definitely planning to go through Level 1 vocabulary and grammar books some time. I think Unicom's organisation of the material is excellent for reviewing and comparing the patterns. As for the actual test, there no longer seems to be any point.

Serge Wrote:I passed Level 2 solely through self-study outside of Japan two years ago. Can't be bothered to take Level 1 as by now I have managed to pass some work-related exams for Japanese in Japanese so the real challenge is no longer there. In fact, the necessity of going through a large amount of stuff in a limited amount of time has had a great side effect of teaching me to quickly scan Japanese texts picking out the essential - something I was worried I was never going to be able to do...

However. I am a big fan of Unicom books and am definitely planning to go through Level 1 vocabulary and grammar books some time. I think Unicom's organisation of the material is excellent for reviewing and comparing the patterns. As for the actual test, there no longer seems to be any point.

If you're planning to get a job there, you'd be wise to take it. Lots of companies won't even consider you unless you have a JLPT1 certificate. If you're at such a high level that it's easy, why not simply do it? It's one day of work for a certificate that will last you a lifetime.

Tobberoth Wrote:

Serge Wrote:I passed Level 2 solely through self-study outside of Japan two years ago. Can't be bothered to take Level 1 as by now I have managed to pass some work-related exams for Japanese in Japanese so the real challenge is no longer there. In fact, the necessity of going through a large amount of stuff in a limited amount of time has had a great side effect of teaching me to quickly scan Japanese texts picking out the essential - something I was worried I was never going to be able to do...

However. I am a big fan of Unicom books and am definitely planning to go through Level 1 vocabulary and grammar books some time. I think Unicom's organisation of the material is excellent for reviewing and comparing the patterns. As for the actual test, there no longer seems to be any point.

If you're planning to get a job there, you'd be wise to take it. Lots of companies won't even consider you unless you have a JLPT1 certificate. If you're at such a high level that it's easy, why not simply do it? It's one day of work for a certificate that will last you a lifetime.

Doesn't Serge already live and work in Japan? If that's the case, did your company ask for your JLPT results Serge?

kerosan41 Wrote:

Tobberoth Wrote:

Serge Wrote:I passed Level 2 solely through self-study outside of Japan two years ago. Can't be bothered to take Level 1 as by now I have managed to pass some work-related exams for Japanese in Japanese so the real challenge is no longer there. In fact, the necessity of going through a large amount of stuff in a limited amount of time has had a great side effect of teaching me to quickly scan Japanese texts picking out the essential - something I was worried I was never going to be able to do...

However. I am a big fan of Unicom books and am definitely planning to go through Level 1 vocabulary and grammar books some time. I think Unicom's organisation of the material is excellent for reviewing and comparing the patterns. As for the actual test, there no longer seems to be any point.

If you're planning to get a job there, you'd be wise to take it. Lots of companies won't even consider you unless you have a JLPT1 certificate. If you're at such a high level that it's easy, why not simply do it? It's one day of work for a certificate that will last you a lifetime.

Doesn't Serge already live and work in Japan? If that's the case, did your company ask for your JLPT results Serge?

No one has ever asked for my JLPT results and I doubt anyone ever will. I'm with Khazumoto on this one: it takes a few seconds to determine someone's level of any language in a face-to-face interview.

Serge Wrote:

kerosan41 Wrote:

Tobberoth Wrote:If you're planning to get a job there, you'd be wise to take it. Lots of companies won't even consider you unless you have a JLPT1 certificate. If you're at such a high level that it's easy, why not simply do it? It's one day of work for a certificate that will last you a lifetime.

Doesn't Serge already live and work in Japan? If that's the case, did your company ask for your JLPT results Serge?

No one has ever asked for my JLPT results and I doubt anyone ever will. I'm with Khazumoto on this one: it takes a few seconds to determine someone's level of any language in a face-to-face interview.

That is, if they ask you for an interview. Which they might not do if you do not have JLPT1 on your CV.

Tobberoth Wrote:

Serge Wrote:No one has ever asked for my JLPT results and I doubt anyone ever will. I'm with Khazumoto on this one: it takes a few seconds to determine someone's level of any language in a face-to-face interview.

That is, if they ask you for an interview. Which they might not do if you do not have JLPT1 on your CV.

I'd rather hope that some other stuff on my CV, including several professional, industry-specific Japanese exams that I took and passed in Japanese, will count for something with whoever reviews it. And if that is not the case, I'm not sure I'd want that kind of job...

Actually, I am yet to come across a Japanese business manager (HR managers included!) who has any idea what JLPT is. They consistently mistake it for the Kanji Aptitude test.

Hmm, that's odd, my experience has been that every recruiter I have spoken with in Tokyo has told me that they strongly prefer applicants with at least JLPT L2, and L1 is even better. Also, in my company, having higher levels on the JLPT is very helpful to apply to transfer to most of the positions available in the Tokyo offices (although not 100% required). These are all Western companies though, so YMMV.