I think the reality is that if you're fluent in Japanese, nobody will care about your JLPT level (or lack thereof). Unless you're applying for a job that doesn't ask for a CV at any point... but they don't exist, as far as I know. Companies may specify a minimum level of aptitude but, again, this won't pose a problem to someone who is fluent in the language. The JLPT is more a test of how bad you aren't rather than how good you are, if that makes sense.

Tobberoth Wrote:If you're planning to get a job there, you'd be wise to take it ... If you're at such a high level that it's easy, why not simply do it? It's one day of work for a certificate that will last you a lifetime.

Although this is a good point I guess. You never know if your dream job will involve an interview with the one guy in Japan who cares about the JLPT. If you know 3,000+ Kanji and 15,000+ words then I suppose there's no harm in blitzing it... what does it cost, about £50?

Also, does anyone know why each level of the JLPT has such a high failure rate? 55.9% passed level four, 57.7% passed level three, 37.0% passed level two and only 33.5% passed level one! Surely you either know the words & readings or you don't? It would appear that most people sit a level that is significantly above their ability. It's not like the pass score is high, either. I mean, only one in three JLPT2 applicants achieved 60% or better... hmmm.

Because people are lazy?

Most of the JLPT takers I've met have done the test for motivational purposes.
Specially the ones that made 4kyu and 3kyu

harhol Wrote:Also, does anyone know why each level of the JLPT has such a high failure rate? 55.9% passed level four, 57.7% passed level three, 37.0% passed level two and only 33.5% passed level one! Surely you either know the words & readings or you don't? It would appear that most people sit a level that is significantly above their ability. It's not like the pass score is high, either. I mean, only one in three JLPT2 applicants achieved 60% or better... hmmm.

Most people overestimate their skills when it comes to foreign languages, particularly once they reach the level where daily communication becomes rather easy.

And Japan is well known for creating tests designed to reduce the pass rate. People in Japan spend two thousand dollars US and more to procure a driver's license. You have to get a score of 90 percent or higher on a 50-question test designed primarily, it would seem, to make you glad you spent all that money on 'driver's ed'. (Something like 90 percent of people who do not fork over the money for driver's ed fail two or more attempts at getting a driver's license -- either the written or driving test, sometimes failing one once, then the other on the next attempt.)

Matthew Wrote:Hmm, that's odd, my experience has been that every recruiter I have spoken with in Tokyo has told me that they strongly prefer applicants with at least JLPT L2, and L1 is even better. Also, in my company, having higher levels on the JLPT is very helpful to apply to transfer to most of the positions available in the Tokyo offices (although not 100% required). These are all Western companies though, so YMMV.

You answered your own point.

Wally Wrote:.

And Japan is well known for creating tests designed to reduce the pass rate. People in Japan spend two thousand dollars US and more to procure a driver's license. You have to get a score of 90 percent or higher on a 50-question test designed primarily, it would seem, to make you glad you spent all that money on 'driver's ed'. (Something like 90 percent of people who do not fork over the money for driver's ed fail two or more attempts at getting a driver's license -- either the written or driving test, sometimes failing one once, then the other on the next attempt.)

Driver's Ed in Japan prepares people for the obstacle course drving test(not real traffic, it's like playing a game). But if you pass the driving school's test, you only have to take the written test.

I have no intention of paying $2000-$3000 for driving school, but since I didn't look over my shoulder one time, I failed the driving test. Of course, it depend on where you take the test, the proctors in Hyogo are hardcore.

2nd attempt later this month!

P.S. I'm taking the JLPT this year since it doesn't hurt to have a certificate.

Most people fail their drive test in America too... but I see your point.

mafried Wrote:

Matthew Wrote:Hmm, that's odd, my experience has been that every recruiter I have spoken with in Tokyo has told me that they strongly prefer applicants with at least JLPT L2, and L1 is even better. Also, in my company, having higher levels on the JLPT is very helpful to apply to transfer to most of the positions available in the Tokyo offices (although not 100% required). These are all Western companies though, so YMMV.

You answered your own point.

Do you have any clue the sh*t you would have to put up with working at a Japanese company... seriously, even if you could get an offer, good luck with that.

mafried Wrote:Most people fail their drive test in America too... but I see your point.

Ehhhhh? Really? I thought the most difficult part of the American test (which I have taken) was making sure your seatbelt was fastened.

But yeah, the Japanese love to fail test takers. Apparently, if more than X succeed, the test creator failed.

theasianpleaser Wrote:

Wally Wrote:.

And Japan is well known for creating tests designed to reduce the pass rate. People in Japan spend two thousand dollars US and more to procure a driver's license. You have to get a score of 90 percent or higher on a 50-question test designed primarily, it would seem, to make you glad you spent all that money on 'driver's ed'. (Something like 90 percent of people who do not fork over the money for driver's ed fail two or more attempts at getting a driver's license -- either the written or driving test, sometimes failing one once, then the other on the next attempt.)

Driver's Ed in Japan prepares people for the obstacle course drving test(not real traffic, it's like playing a game). But if you pass the driving school's test, you only have to take the written test.

I have no intention of paying $2000-$3000 for driving school, but since I didn't look over my shoulder one time, I failed the driving test. Of course, it depend on where you take the test, the proctors in Hyogo are hardcore.

2nd attempt later this month!

P.S. I'm taking the JLPT this year since it doesn't hurt to have a certificate.

No, they teach you what the driver's test requires, but as you note, if you pass the driver's ed road test, it's not necessary when you go for your license. The driver's ed final exam is taken both on the road and in their "obstacle course", not one or the other.

And you don't *know* why you failed (at the test center), because they never, ever tell you. They just announce that the test is over. You might have failed for not signaling a "lane change" when, in fact, you did not feel you were actually changing lanes (you were just moving out maybe one meter to avoid the possibility that a parked car door might suddenly open). And to be sure, you have to lose 30 points to fail (or fail one critical thing like not stopping at a railroad crossing), and since failure to look over your shoulder one time is a minor infraction, it was simply the straw that broke the camel's back, not the "reason" you failed. That would be, at most, a 5-point deduction.

I know a few people who have decided not to pay the fare, and some of them have succeeded (albeit not on the first crack, and since time is money I don't know who saved what), but I know many more who are still beating their heads against the wall.

Simple fact: It's a game, and the police want you to pony up and be like everyone else. If you don't, the deck is stacked. Few can pass the written test (talking about the test required for new drivers, not the conversion test) without coaching.