Here are two emails I got when I was searching for a place to get married in Japan. It's loaded with keigo and thought I would share:

Number 1
トムさん

お世話になります。
ご連絡いただきましてありがとうございます。
昨日までお休みいただいておりましてご連絡遅くなり
大変申し訳ございませんでした。

来週の日曜ですが　18日でよろしいでしょうか。
お時間は　12時で大丈夫です。

オプションにつきましてはアイテムリストでご確認しながら
お見積りを改めて作成していきたいと思います。

衣裳ですが、タキシードの大きさも　日本人体系で
185ｃｍの身長・ウエスト100ｃｍ　サイズのものはいつでもございます。
イタリアのブランドのもので　190ｃｍ　サイズもございますし、
身長とウエストサイズが分かりましたらご用意が出来ますのでご安心下さい。

トムさんとまたお会い出来てすごく嬉しかったです。
お急ぎだった事もお察し出来ずに申し訳ございませんでした。
またお話し沢山お聞かせ下さいね。

Number 2
トムさん

こんばんは。
お世話になります。
今日は雨がシトシト降っていて肌寒いですね。

先日はご来店頂きましてありがとうございます。

その後いかがでしょうか。
いろいろとお話しをされている事と思いますが、
また何かございましたらご遠慮なくおっしゃって
下さいね。

本日、お二人と同じお日にちをお考えだとの
お問い合わせも入りまして、お伝えしないと
思いメールさせて頂きました。

来週のご来店でしたので大丈夫だと思いますが
やはり私はお二人に　8/8　で行って頂きたいな
と思います。
また私で出来る事がございましたら、精一杯
お手伝いさせて頂きますので、宜しくお願い致します。

それではまた。

What's keigo?

Is it the masu desu stuffs or is there more to it?

kazelee Wrote:What's keigo?

Is it the masu desu stuffs or is there more to it?

For the explanation in Japanese:

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%95%AC%E8%AA%9E

For the explanation in English:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorific_s...n_Japanese

When it is so polite you want to break down and cry (like the first paragraph), that's keigo.

~J

I love how women talk, it's so cute.

woodwojr Wrote:When it is so polite you want to break down and cry (like the first paragraph), that's keigo.

~J

You know, you're right. The second one even mentions the weather ~bursts into tears~ Can you imagine someone in the UK or US, writing what is essentially a business letter, feeling the need to discuss the weather before getting down to business? Thank goodness it didn't mention cherry blossom, or the gold, red and yellow leaves of autumn, otherwise I'd be inconsolable for a week.

I feel really patronizing, but I love it when they talk keigo.

I see now why there is a problem with yungins not knowing this stuff... @_@

Pangolin Wrote:The second one even mentions the weather ~bursts into tears~ Can you imagine someone in the UK or US, writing what is essentially a business letter, feeling the need to discuss the weather before getting down to business?

It's pretty standard etiquette in letter writing to mention the weather in the first paragraph and then go

さて・・・

and get down to the reason for why you're writing. Letter writing has a set pattern to it and there are rules for what to say, how to say it and in what order. (I'm sure that quite a few people know this already)

However, in business, I rarely see the weather mentioned. It sounds like this person is trying to be friendly to トムさん. In fact, the second email tones it down slightly by having a few less formal/more friendly touches like the な in 行っていただきたいなと思います and the ね in おしゃってくださいね.

theasianpleaser, thanks for sharing! I like this kind of posts. 勉強になります (⌒-⌒)ﾆｺﾆｺ...

nac_est Wrote:theasianpleaser, thanks for sharing! I like this kind of posts. 勉強になります (⌒-⌒)ﾆｺﾆｺ...

No problem. My intent was to provide some real sentences for whatever SRS the readers are using.

wrightak Wrote:It sounds like this person is trying to be friendly to トムさん. In fact, the second email tones it down slightly by having a few less formal/more friendly touches like the な in 行っていただきたいなと思います and the ね in おしゃってくださいね.

Exactly.

alyks Wrote:I love how women talk, it's so cute.

I agree

宜しくお願い致します。

My eyes are bleeding at the gratuitous use of 敬語 and 漢字.

You gotta love the way Japanese letters begin though. They all start with stuff like "Winter's cold grasp has descended upon us once more." Such flowery prose!

It sounds like congratulations are in order for theasianpleaser!

theasianpleaser Wrote:

alyks Wrote:I love how women talk, it's so cute.

I agree

I'm curious - what parts indicate that the writers are women? (assuming you were referring to the letters..) I had the sense that gender language differences disappear for the most part when we're being very polite.

Thora Wrote:It sounds like congratulations are in order for theasianpleaser!

theasianpleaser Wrote:

alyks Wrote:I love how women talk, it's so cute.

I agree

I'm curious - what parts indicate that the writers are women? (assuming you were referring to the letters..) I had the sense that gender language differences disappear for the most part when we're being very polite.

Even though I know the person is a nice Japanese lady, here's what would tip me off:

・・・すごく嬉しかったです。

I've never heard or seen a Japanese guy use 嬉しい.

またお話し沢山お聞かせ下さいね。
・・・ご遠慮なくおっしゃって下さいね。
The　ね at the end.

・・・行って頂きたいなと思います。

The な at the end of 頂きたい. I've never heard or seen a Japanese guy do this.

If someone has a different experience, please share.

Thanks. Yeah, the な and ね seem a little out of place here. I didn't know that about 嬉しい. (It makes me wonder if I use man-only words without realizing it...ugh)

theasianpleaser Wrote:・・・すごく嬉しかったです。
I've never heard or seen a Japanese guy use 嬉しい.

Since I saw this, I have seen three different guys say it. I don't think that's a female word.

Keigo is essentially gender neutral. What can give a feminine feel to polite & honorific speech is that women tend to use more polite levels of speech in situations where a man would drop down to something more casual.

For example there is no common casual female self-referencing pronoun similar to the male boku or ore. Most self reference with watashi, a small few use atashi, and an almost non-existant few use uchi.

Jarvik7 Wrote:Keigo is essentially gender neutral. What can give a feminine feel to polite & honorific speech is that women tend to use more polite levels of speech in situations where a man would drop down to something more casual.

Nail on the head I reckon.

alyks Wrote:

theasianpleaser Wrote:・・・すごく嬉しかったです。
I've never heard or seen a Japanese guy use 嬉しい.

Since I saw this, I have seen three different guys say it. I don't think that's a female word.

It's not a female word, guys use it all the time, just in different circumstances.

In this instance, in an email to a customer, it does sound feminine to me to use that phrase. But it doesn't make the word うれしい a word for women only.

Jarvik7 Wrote:Keigo is essentially gender neutral. What can give a feminine feel to polite & honorific speech is that women tend to use more polite levels of speech in situations where a man would drop down to something more casual.

A reflection of the traditionally lower status of women generally. This can make it a bit tricky trying to navigate the appropriate language to use in circumstances that are not so traditional. (eg - a woman in a higher position at the office than men who are older.) So much is conveyed by the form.

I've been watching some office dramas in the hopes of finding a model. So far, however, the female characters have been described by their colleagues as "scary" and "hard"! Guess I'll keep looking.

I only ever used basic keigo, but good to confirm that it's neutral.

If anyone's interested, there's a book called "Writing Letters in Japanese" that is quite helpful. It covers letter format, expressions, grammar and has examples for different purposes. It was created by the Inter-University Center for Japanese Language Studies in Yokohama, so some of the example letters are geared toward foreign students seeking employment, etc. (ISBN4-7890-0664-6, 142 pgs)

Thora Wrote:A reflection of the traditionally lower status of women generally. This can make it a bit tricky trying to navigate the appropriate language to use in circumstances that are not so traditional. (eg - a woman in a higher position at the office than men who are older.) So much is conveyed by the form.

I think it's got a lot more to do with people trying to be attractive. Men will speak more coarsely and more casually because it makes them look stronger and more confident. Women will speak more politely and use prettier language because they feel it's more becoming. I've met women in positions of authority and I find that their speech tends to be pretty basic です・ます and they don't speak gruffly like male bosses.

I think that use of language is linked to the fact that Japanese women rarely occupy positions of authority. However, I think you've got the cause and effect the wrong way round - it's not a reflection, it's part of the cause. Women can't speak strongly and coarsely like men do because it would make them look unfeminine and as a consequence, men will be able to argue more forcefully with stronger language. To sum up, men can use powerful language and this gives them power.

Just my take on it anyway...

In the interests of equality, in the workplace everyone should speak politely. But thanks to 上下関係, that's never how it works. Being in a superior position means you should speak less politely to demonstrate your authority, but if a women spoke casually in a female manner e.g. "鈴木ちゃん、これをコピーしてくれる？", she might sound weak. When a man speaks casually in a male manner e.g. "鈴木、これをコピーしてくれ", he sounds strong (bullying even).

I'm just pleased with myself that I only needed to look up one thing in that entire set of correspondence: 沢山 And as soon as I did it I slapped myself on the forehead.

esgrove Wrote:I'm just pleased with myself that I only needed to look up one thing in that entire set of correspondence: 沢山 And as soon as I did it I slapped myself on the forehead.

LOL

Jarvik7 Wrote:For example there is no common casual female self-referencing pronoun similar to the male boku or ore. Most self reference with watashi, a small few use atashi, and an almost non-existant few use uchi.

You forgot あたい!

~J

woodwojr Wrote:You forgot あたい!

~J

I was just gonna say. I'm kindof fond of that one.

QuackingShoe Wrote:

woodwojr Wrote:You forgot あたい!

~J

I was just gonna say. I'm kindof fond of that one.

What about わっち?
I've seen it used in a dorama