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KO2001 and iKnow (Group Effort Request)

#26
I must say I'm more towards Tobberoth's way of thinking... but then again I really do like what iKnow has set up there. Maybe I'll cross reference all the sentences and if I happen to like the KO sentence more, I'll go ahead and use that one instead.

But anyway, keep up the good work! I'd love to help, but as I'm still in the middle of RtK (1220 woo!) I have a lot of work to do in that plus other stuff that needs to be studied before I can get around to KO and iKnow. Sorry!

(and thanks for the reply Nuke!)
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#27
SRSing for language-learning is so open-ended, it's hard to call anything a flaw. Depends on the type of cards you're doing, and what your goals are for them/whether you divide them into multiple fail points or leave them as single entities. Sometimes, quantifying new information isn't cut and dry, but I do agree the basic theme should always to be find the balance where you're minimizing overhead and maximizing efficiency. I generally think of it as i+x for passive recognition, and stick to the minimum information principle (http://www.supermemo.com/articles/20rules.htm) for active recall, but even that's just a vague guideline.
Edited: 2009-01-14, 8:29 pm
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#28
Working on 121-135 as we speak.
Edited: 2009-01-14, 9:06 pm
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#29
Cool idea-KO just keep getting better and better.

I have a suggestion-why dont you edit the first page of this thread with 1) list of who is doing what and 2) links, and then update as it develops there, so that people can quickly find the info they are looking for.....
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#30
Another idea is to send all files to say, NUKEMARINE and have him upload it all to iknow, that way in the future all the files are in one place, and you dont have to jump around to find what you want....
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#31
uh... zazen did you read the 1st page of this thread???

2001.Kanji.Odyssey Word List 06 (76-90) is completed.
link is here: http://www.iknow.co.jp/lists/44042
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#32
(i didnt notice he was updating it)

Hey-how do you add sentences after typing up a list in iknow? I just tried it out with some kanji from book two, made a list, now how to add sentences?
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#33
you click on the word and it will pop up and say "add sentence" click on that and then check under "popular" to find a good sentence from cerego and if you can't find one check under "search" for cerego sentences ... i would be cautious about adding noncerego sentences though... make sure to match the reading with the sentence!! the sentence locater searches by kanji not by readings!!!
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#34
Nukemarine Wrote:The other way, which I figured out with iKnow, is to let that sentence represent one vocabulary word. KO2001 actually had this set-up, as the vocabulary was on the side plus they pointed it out in the sentences. We just ignored it when we typed up the spread sheet. So, if you use KO sentences (which are better than iKnow Core, but lack images and audio readings), just bold or set off to the side the word the sentence is there to teach. If there's two words, then use the sentence twice, once per each word. From here on out, how well you do with that vocabulary word determines if you got the sentence right. Make sense?.
I talked about this a little here, but one of the big reasons we use sentences is specifically to see what words are used together (collocations) and to internalize them. Just reading a word in a random sentence you don't understand fully isn't going to be much better over single vocabulary words. I know you're not specifically saying you're doing this, but just so you know..

I'd also like to point out that the i+1 concept is more specific toward learning grammatical structures and not so much how many words to put in a sentence. Deciding how many new words to put in a sentence is more of how much your memory can handle, as long as you understand everything in the sentence.
Edited: 2009-01-14, 9:35 pm
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#35
I'll do 581-595 from book two...


Im running into the problem of either no sentences or sentence that is way to long. Even the sentence that says created by cerego seams to be user sentences at times.

How will we handle the problem of no sentence example?
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#36
alyks Wrote:
Nukemarine Wrote:The other way, which I figured out with iKnow, is to let that sentence represent one vocabulary word. KO2001 actually had this set-up, as the vocabulary was on the side plus they pointed it out in the sentences. We just ignored it when we typed up the spread sheet. So, if you use KO sentences (which are better than iKnow Core, but lack images and audio readings), just bold or set off to the side the word the sentence is there to teach. If there's two words, then use the sentence twice, once per each word. From here on out, how well you do with that vocabulary word determines if you got the sentence right. Make sense?.
I talked about this a little here, but one of the big reasons we use sentences is specifically to see what words are used together (collocations) and to internalize them. Just reading a word in a random sentence you don't understand fully isn't going to be much better over single vocabulary words. I know you're not specifically saying you're doing this, but just so you know..

I'd also like to point out that the i+1 concept is more specific toward learning grammatical structures and not so much how many words to put in a sentence. Deciding how many new words to put in a sentence is more of how much your memory can handle, as long as you understand everything in the sentence.
Why dont you guys carry the debat to a new thread? We could keep this one focused on the project (impossible I am sure, but....0
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#37
alyks Wrote:I'd also like to point out that the i+1 concept is more specific toward learning grammatical structures and not so much how many words to put in a sentence. Deciding how many new words to put in a sentence is more of how much your memory can handle, as long as you understand everything in the sentence.
Agreed, this is my take on i+1 as well. If a sentence is 5 words long and you only understand 2, chances are you won't understand the sentence even if you look those 3 words up, but as long as you do, it's fine to use it. A 10 word long sentence where you don't understand 3 words but everything else can usually be a great sentence. Not only are you learning 3 cards in one card, you're also training long sentences etc.

Might take an extra second or two to read it, but I'd say it's worth it. (Of course, the majority of the sentences in the SRS should be really short sentences with only one new thing, but it's always good to mix things up).
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#38
121-135 completed: http://www.iknow.co.jp/lists/44060



And yes guys please move the discussion somewhere else while we are trying to complete this. We can argue about it later lol.
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#39
Now working on 136-150.
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#40
Zazen, can you make it 586-600? Reason being, we're going off multiples of 3 pages (or 15 kanji).

Tobberoth, Alyks, sorry about starting the discussion on the merits of i+1 for vocabulary and sentences. Let's table it for now on this thread.

I'm suprised at how fast it's getting done.

For problems with no sentences, or sentences used from iKnows English lessons (Cerego's long Japanese sentences with no audio), I say if you add a sentence, make sure there's audio. Otherwise, just leave the word on the list without the sentence.

What we can do later during the "smoothing" process is upload a good sentence (maybe from KO, as it'll be on a limited basis), and even audio from a TTS or friendly native reading. iKnow now allows you to record to the sentence if I recall correctly.
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#41
Nukemarine Wrote:Zazen, can you make it 586-600? Reason being, we're going off multiples of 3 pages (or 15 kanji).

Tobberoth, Alyks, sorry about starting the discussion on the merits of i+1 for vocabulary and sentences. Let's table it for now on this thread.

I'm suprised at how fast it's getting done.

For problems with no sentences, or sentences used from iKnows English lessons (Cerego's long Japanese sentences with no audio), I say if you add a sentence, make sure there's audio. Otherwise, just leave the word on the list without the sentence.

What we can do later during the "smoothing" process is upload a good sentence (maybe from KO, as it'll be on a limited basis), and even audio from a TTS or friendly native reading. iKnow now allows you to record to the sentence if I recall correctly.
Cool. Got it.
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#42
wow, i just realized there is literally a GOLD MINE of stuff that could be used on iKnow on Coscom's website... they do news segments in full audio several times a month: http://www.coscom.co.jp/jpnews/news/index.html click the top right corner to switch it to kanji...
Edited: 2009-01-14, 10:21 pm
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#43
136-150 completed: http://www.iknow.co.jp/lists/44140-2001-...ey-136-150
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#44
Working on 46-60 and 106-120. Come on guys let's keep this thing rolling!
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#45
i'll help some more next week probably, i'm working this weekend...
i fully intended to complete this list sometime in the future even if no one else bothered to help... it would be nice to get everything done with the collaboration though.. right now it's just hard for me to help as much because i am working through RtK again and making lists for the RtK keywords at the same time...i'll try to pitch in a helping hand every now and then though as i am working through it...
Edited: 2009-01-15, 10:49 pm
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#46
well... i'll try to do 151-165 before i fall asleep tonight Tongue
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#47
2001.Kanji.Odyssey Word List 11 (151 - 165) completed: http://www.iknow.co.jp/lists/44375
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#48
Finished List 03 http://www.iknow.co.jp/lists/24593 but for some reason the last 5 kanji groups ended on the top. It probably occurred because I broke up the sentence entering (all the new ones appeared at the top of the list). Not a show stopper but annoying. I tried to reorganize it (make new list, add from that list in proper order), but it didn't let me add from a list I created. If anyone wants to give it a shot, and the sentences carry over, just give me the new link.

Hopefully in time, there'll be group managed lists. That means any of us can go in and add a better sentence, audio and even photos. Although the thought of a group entering in an UBER Death Note list (with context photos from the Manga) sounds so cool. Definitely a group effort to get a list of any worth.

It does make me wonder if a list for Kanji in Context would be appreciated? I remember Fabrice recommended it which was the reason I bought it. However, the example sentences were too advanced for me at that time.
Edited: 2009-01-16, 2:36 am
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#49
you can select the placement of the word in the same place where you select to add the sentence i think....
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#50
I'll do 196 - 210, 211 - 225 and 226 - 240.
Edited: 2009-01-16, 1:33 pm
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