(I really resent being called a liar, as has happened here when I also resented telling my most previous user name. There was not other reason for this refusal than that it was a rude request I had not intention whatsoever to comply with. As you can see I registered HERE 2007 July 12, but I've had another user name even earlier than that. I have simply lost track of that.)
here is a post from theJapanesePage.com, a site that wasn't supposed to be mentioned here when it was brought up a long time ago. I think it has some merits to post it here now.
http://tinyurl.com/8f3e8x
Post by Suedenjin on Tue 07.10.2007 9:36 am
Ouch! New member jumping into a mine field
I've spent a couple of hours today reading about Heisig and his Remembering the Kanji here, and I am really amazed at the confusion regarding both kanji and Heisig's book. In particular I find it a bit depressing seeing the ignorant and aggressive attacks on what I consider to be a linguistic pioneering work. Really remarkable, indeed.
My own entry point into "kanji" was very simple: I like various ways to write languages. Just like some people collect stamps, I "collect" writing systems. I happened to first pick Japanese, but it could having been Chinese instead.
"Kanji" (or "hanzi", if you prefer) is first of all a writing system with ancient roots. Per se it has very little to do with the Japanese language, apart from the fact that some freaks long ago decided that it would be cool to be able to write the Japanese language in some way or another. Since everything Chinese was popular in Japan at that time, they decided to press a REALLY alien writing system on a TOTALLY different language. I know very little about the Chinese languages, but as far as I've been able to tell there are very few similarities apart from the use of Chinese Characters in both Japanese and Chinese.
So confusing the nature of "kanji" studies and pretending that it's the same as learning the Japanese language is utterly misdirected. On the other hand you will be able to decipher quite a lot of the meaning of both written Japanese and (to a lesser extent) Chinese written/printed material. You are no longer assaulted by a flood of alien lines and dots but are able to see that "this text is about dogs and cats" and so on.
When I first learned a considerable chunk of kanji using Heisig's first book I was really happy to be able to "read" some Japanese texts and get a clue what it was about. Even if his keywords are a bit off target now and then most of them are right on the spot to get the core meaning of the character. Really encouraging if you aim at being able to read Japanese.
My first attempt using the Heisig method broke down at around 1300 kanji learned. Why? Since I didn't take his advice seriously enough and studied the "stories" used as mnemonics, and in particular I was sloppy making up my own stuff after the first 500 kanji. So I went the conventional root and started to Learn Kanji In Context. Since then - several years ago - I've been able to learn several hundred kanji, their meaning, reading and pronunciation In ConText.
The problem for me has been that my knowledge of written Japanese has been a onesided one: can read but cannot write. AND above all I was never able to remember what blasted kanji was used in a particular word and I have been mixing up this kanji with that kanji in absurdum.
So I decided to go back to where I started and learn all kanji in Remembering the Kanji I and this time do it as Heisig advised. Viola! And it works this time! Suddenly I am both able to tell the difference between look-alike kanji when I read and also able to write those words I couldn't remember at all. That's really a huge step forward in my Japanese skills.
So why are some people so negative when Heisig is mentioned here? Protecting their own waste of time learning kanji (CHINESE CHARACTERS!) in a very inefficient way? Heisig NEVER says that his book is a Japanese textbook or whatever. He states in the clearest possible way that this is a book that teaches you to memorize, recognize and write (the shape, lines and dots of) 2000+ kanji. Nothing more and nothing less. The fact that the ancients in Japan added layer on layer of equally imported Chinese "readings" as well as native words to these symbols is an entirely different story.
Now when I've been taking my kanji studies more seriously I've been able to really learn the first half of the book (1080 kanji, to be precise) in a month. I use the handy J-Quick program to test my progress as well as to offer hints on alternative meanings, keywords and so on. Works like magic.
BTW: I assume that the Heisig method would be EVEN MORE useful to students of Chinese since it is my impression that this language 1) requires more hanzi to be able to be considered literate and 2) the characters used tend to be more complex than their Japanese cousins (even when using simplified hanzi).
So please stop all biased and ignorant attacks on a method that could be very useful for many students of Japanese wanting to read and write FULL Japanese early on in their studies and not having to suffer from these endless hiragana-threads crawling across the pages. KANJI RULES!!
here is a post from theJapanesePage.com, a site that wasn't supposed to be mentioned here when it was brought up a long time ago. I think it has some merits to post it here now.
http://tinyurl.com/8f3e8x
Post by Suedenjin on Tue 07.10.2007 9:36 am
Ouch! New member jumping into a mine field
I've spent a couple of hours today reading about Heisig and his Remembering the Kanji here, and I am really amazed at the confusion regarding both kanji and Heisig's book. In particular I find it a bit depressing seeing the ignorant and aggressive attacks on what I consider to be a linguistic pioneering work. Really remarkable, indeed.
My own entry point into "kanji" was very simple: I like various ways to write languages. Just like some people collect stamps, I "collect" writing systems. I happened to first pick Japanese, but it could having been Chinese instead.
"Kanji" (or "hanzi", if you prefer) is first of all a writing system with ancient roots. Per se it has very little to do with the Japanese language, apart from the fact that some freaks long ago decided that it would be cool to be able to write the Japanese language in some way or another. Since everything Chinese was popular in Japan at that time, they decided to press a REALLY alien writing system on a TOTALLY different language. I know very little about the Chinese languages, but as far as I've been able to tell there are very few similarities apart from the use of Chinese Characters in both Japanese and Chinese.
So confusing the nature of "kanji" studies and pretending that it's the same as learning the Japanese language is utterly misdirected. On the other hand you will be able to decipher quite a lot of the meaning of both written Japanese and (to a lesser extent) Chinese written/printed material. You are no longer assaulted by a flood of alien lines and dots but are able to see that "this text is about dogs and cats" and so on.
When I first learned a considerable chunk of kanji using Heisig's first book I was really happy to be able to "read" some Japanese texts and get a clue what it was about. Even if his keywords are a bit off target now and then most of them are right on the spot to get the core meaning of the character. Really encouraging if you aim at being able to read Japanese.
My first attempt using the Heisig method broke down at around 1300 kanji learned. Why? Since I didn't take his advice seriously enough and studied the "stories" used as mnemonics, and in particular I was sloppy making up my own stuff after the first 500 kanji. So I went the conventional root and started to Learn Kanji In Context. Since then - several years ago - I've been able to learn several hundred kanji, their meaning, reading and pronunciation In ConText.
The problem for me has been that my knowledge of written Japanese has been a onesided one: can read but cannot write. AND above all I was never able to remember what blasted kanji was used in a particular word and I have been mixing up this kanji with that kanji in absurdum.
So I decided to go back to where I started and learn all kanji in Remembering the Kanji I and this time do it as Heisig advised. Viola! And it works this time! Suddenly I am both able to tell the difference between look-alike kanji when I read and also able to write those words I couldn't remember at all. That's really a huge step forward in my Japanese skills.
So why are some people so negative when Heisig is mentioned here? Protecting their own waste of time learning kanji (CHINESE CHARACTERS!) in a very inefficient way? Heisig NEVER says that his book is a Japanese textbook or whatever. He states in the clearest possible way that this is a book that teaches you to memorize, recognize and write (the shape, lines and dots of) 2000+ kanji. Nothing more and nothing less. The fact that the ancients in Japan added layer on layer of equally imported Chinese "readings" as well as native words to these symbols is an entirely different story.
Now when I've been taking my kanji studies more seriously I've been able to really learn the first half of the book (1080 kanji, to be precise) in a month. I use the handy J-Quick program to test my progress as well as to offer hints on alternative meanings, keywords and so on. Works like magic.
BTW: I assume that the Heisig method would be EVEN MORE useful to students of Chinese since it is my impression that this language 1) requires more hanzi to be able to be considered literate and 2) the characters used tend to be more complex than their Japanese cousins (even when using simplified hanzi).
So please stop all biased and ignorant attacks on a method that could be very useful for many students of Japanese wanting to read and write FULL Japanese early on in their studies and not having to suffer from these endless hiragana-threads crawling across the pages. KANJI RULES!!
