BoccKob Wrote:So, err, what should we dumb schmucks for whom a four year degree is absolutely out of the question do to get into the country? Become a mail-order bride? :O

do a 3 year degree instead.. 1 year less just slightly heavier workload for the 3 years

Jarvik7 Wrote:

BoccKob Wrote:So, err, what should we dumb schmucks for whom a four year degree is absolutely out of the question do to get into the country? Become a mail-order bride? :O

Do you already have an established career with in-demand skills and experience?

And even then, remember that as a non-native Japanese speaker you're at an automatic disadvantage -- most Japanese companies are not going to be looking to give a foreigner a chance to come to Japan or improve their Japanese. I think that only in some specific fields would you be able to overcome that language barrier and get hired based on your skills.

I may have a bit of a problem. :O

efeilliaid Wrote:I was fighting with myself before deciding to post this - karma and all that jazz... and I feel sorry for the person running this business... but at the same time this information might save someone else.

To the point: avoid Yoshida House.

Thanks for the heads-up! I'm planning on heading over on a working holiday in about 4 months time, and actually had Yoshida as my first backup, should my primary accommodation plan fall through. Even if it is bearable, I think I'll err on the side of caution and cross it off the list...

One of my friends told me I should stay there for 3 months-i.e. take the 3-month tourist visa and go to Osaka and live there for a few months. And travel around japan, i.e. just experience it. I'm thinking of taking that after my program is done.

to talk about how we got to Japan or whatever and with what visas and what my recommendation would be:

I've traveled to Japan as a tourist 4 years ago and stayed in Tokyo for about a month riding the shinkansen to whereever I could get to using the JR rail pass. It was probably the second or third greatest experience of my life. It totally opened my eyes to different possibilities of living. During my trip and before, I was a bit overweight (what American isn't) by about 20 pounds and I had just a bad vision of the world. But coming to Japan that first time changed my life because I saw people walking, riding their bikes, and using public transportation. I saw a wider variety of food than I was used to with many more healthy options available to me (I'm not saying that Japan has the healthiest food or that it is all healthy but that there is a larger variety of convenient options and restaurants that have healthier options on their menu). I stayed in Sakura House which is really nice and I recommend it if you need a place for an extended time. It was awesome. But I was a tourist. I had no responsibilities, I could do whatever I felt like. I only saw Japanese people when they were commuting or shopping or visiting touristy spots. Basically I only saw people when they were having fun or going somewhere.


Fast Forward to last summer of 2009. I got into JET and moved here. I got a special visa that JETS get which last 3 years with the possibility of renewing another 2 years if I stay and work (not that it matters for me since I can get the spousal visa, but I am using the working visa right now). I have lots of responsibility now. I teach kids. I assist other teachers and have to be accountable to them. I have a child who I'm raising here for now, a wife, and other things that one has while living in a place. I see people at work and I've visited lots of eikaiwas and other companies for various reasons. I have contacts now and I've been to lots of Japanese people's houses, parties, weddings, etc. Basically I have to deal with people in real life situations. I have to deal with hillbilly kids who think its funny that a white person is trying to speak there language, speaks it but with a slight accent, and sometimes messes up thus causing them to go into a riot and begin mocking me for messing up. The funny part about it is that they can't speak 5 words of English. So...yeah.

So why did I write this? Because lots of people have been suggesting that the op come to japan and visit the place to see if it feels right and if it does then try to find a job while here. I would like to say that coming to visit is great but you are going to get a totally different experience when you work. You are going to see people in a differnt light. You are going to have to do something. It's going to be rough and you aren't going to like it sometimes (I mean, what job is absolutely perfect and what person never has a bad day right?) Basically living here and visiting here are different. Yeah, you can get a feel for how transportation might work for you, how the restaurants work, how parks work, how the people act in public, and lots of other things while visiting but you won't get the same kind of interaction that you get when you have responsibility and work to do. Plus once you become familiar to people they will start opening up and actually start to befriend/mock you. It depends on the person of course but as a tourist you probably won't have to many instances when people will come up to you and either tell you how awesome your hair or eye color is and how much they want to ***** you or, on the other hand, you'll probably never have to deal with people excluding you from various thing, begin speaking japanese to you with an "american" accent i.e., mimicking/over exagerating "your" accent (I know you are English), addressing you as gaijin instead of your name. etc etc.

So again, this isn't me trying to rant about how wonderful or how awful Japan is. I have this great love/hate relationship with Japan and I hope that you do come. But, and I think this is the point of this massive post, if you do come temporarily with a tourist visa or whatever it's called don't let that situation determine completely your decision to live here. I mean, you may have the worst time a tourist and decide to leave or you may, like me, have the best time of you life. But living here and touring here are different so just be prepared.

/advice that somehow turned into rant and finally into a small summary

Is it necessary to have a 4 year degree or will a 3 year one suffice?

Tykkylumi Wrote:Is it necessary to have a 4 year degree or will a 3 year one suffice?

I'm not an expert but I think most employers want you to have a B.A. or B.S.

So whether it takes you 2, 3, 4 or more years to complete I don't think really matters. If you have something less than a BA then I'm not sure at all.

Tykkylumi Wrote:Is it necessary to have a 4 year degree or will a 3 year one suffice?

Most uni degrees in Australia are three year, and they accept those. And it doesn't matter one bit what it's in- could be floral design or even a Japanese major

captal Wrote:And it doesn't matter one bit what it's in- could be floral design or even a Japanese major

Only if you want to be an English teacher. Pretty much every serious job will require an applicable degree or significant professional experience (shuts me out from IT jobs I'm qualified for).

Jarvik7 Wrote:

captal Wrote:And it doesn't matter one bit what it's in- could be floral design or even a Japanese major

Only if you want to be an English teacher. Pretty much every serious job will require an applicable degree or significant professional experience (shuts me out from IT jobs I'm qualified for).

I'm in IT (Telco industry) with 3 years of experience does that count as significant?

I've been browsing job ads on things like gaijinpot and one thing that seems to hold me back is my Japanese. Most offers require fluent or business level which in my case is at least one year away.
Here is the question though: in "normal" job markets companies post all kinds of ridiculous requirements but even if you don't meet all of them (like they require 5 years of experience but you have 3) you still apply because there is a good chance you'll be interviewed anyway since almost nobody can meet their demands completely, is this the same case in Japan? Ie. can I apply now having only very basic Japanese with hopes of finding an opportunity or should I just wait because it would "stain" my reputation on that market?

While experience figures may be adjustable, Japanese ability is usually not to a significant degree. If someone has only 3 years of experience with Java vs 5, there isn't a big difference. On the other hand, if they want someone with the ability to interact intimately with Japanese speaking staff on technical matters, but you only know basic sentence patterns, it'll take a long time to work up to an acceptable level and you'll be effectively useless until you get there. There are times they'll request native Japanese and accept JLPT1, or request JLPT1 and accept JLPT2 though.

You really just have to think of it from the Japanese employers' standpoint. They want to run their company, and they aren't really interested in making special efforts to give foreigners a chance to come to Japan and improve their Japanese. Why would you hire someone who is going to have problems communicating with coworkers and bosses, reading documents, understanding the tasks necessary, and on top of that who has never lived in Japan before? Unless this person has some extraordinarily specialized ability or knowledge that they absolutely can't find in a native Japanese person, there's no reason why the Japanese employer is even going to consider you.

Wow, it almost boils down to have something unique to offer, cause that'll make you needed. Plus bring something to the table, cause that'll make you welcomed.

Which is itself a beautiful quote from the last lecture.

Idiot-proof guide to what?
The moment they make something idiot-proof, the next, the world invents a more clever idiot.

ta12121 Wrote:One of my friends told me I should stay there for 3 months-i.e. take the 3-month tourist visa and go to Osaka and live there for a few months. And travel around japan, i.e. just experience it. I'm thinking of taking that after my program is done.

i would like to know more about doing something like this. what kind of housing could you find suitable for such a short period of time and for a foreigner? This is probably how i intend to make my first step to Japan, possibly making one short vacation trip prior.

hotsw4p Wrote:

ta12121 Wrote:One of my friends told me I should stay there for 3 months-i.e. take the 3-month tourist visa and go to Osaka and live there for a few months. And travel around japan, i.e. just experience it. I'm thinking of taking that after my program is done.

i would like to know more about doing something like this. what kind of housing could you find suitable for such a short period of time and for a foreigner? This is probably how i intend to make my first step to Japan, possibly making one short vacation trip prior.

Well my friend said it's 3-months but he said research the details on your own for more in-depth facts and such. As for the housing hmmm, not sure. If it's hotels and such, oh man it's going to be expensive as crazy. But if it's an apartment then it would be cheaper, but you'd have to make your own food or go out.
There various types of visa and such, some related to working in a japnaese company. But I'd say you'd have to be functional in japanese in all skills if your wanting to work in a full japanese environment

There is another way to move to Japan, and that is through a U.S. government job. I don't mean military either. The U.S. embassy contains staff from numerous civilian agencies that includes non-special agent positions, known as "professional support staff".

For example the FBI Legat offices located all around the world. These offices have a few agents, but also normal non-agent support staff: http://www.fbi.gov/contact/legat/legat.htm

And from the inside let me tell you that a lot of these support staff personnel do NOT possess any language ability for the country they are assigned too. In fact, from speaking with the head Special Agent of the Tokyo Legat (basically stands for legal attachment), he informed me that none of his support staff have any Japanese ability......even though it is listed as a very desirable skill during the selection process. The reason is because most of the government, well at least the FBI, now contracts out it's linguists. That means most of the people who would come to work for the FBI due to their great Japanese ability won't actually be official FBI employees, and thus aren't eligible to work in a Legat office.

So what this means is that if you can get on with the FBI in any capacity as an official employee, even if you start as a "lowly" office clerk, and have some language ability on the side, you might actually have a pretty decent shot at an overseas office after just a couple of years. As a side note the competition for offices like Tokyo is also VERY low from what I hear......as in sometimes only one or two people apply for it when openings come up lol. Most adults never think twice about Japan and simply want to grab one of the European openings. That and most people in the FBI have family so they simply don't apply for any legats in the first place.

This of course kind of blows my mind because the setup is pretty much a dream job.

You get a paid apartment in Akasaka about 2-3 times the size of what a "normal" single Japanese person would have, which isn't surprising since the housing allowance for a single person is around $70,000 per year.

Your base government pay + an additional $1,000 per month........tax free.

They'll pay to send your kids to school and pay for you to go to language school or to complete your bachelors or masters degree while you are there.

So basically you get everything for free and your paycheck is pure spending money.

This is just for the FBI of course, but there are several other agencies with similar setups.

Don't quote me on this, but it seems when I was looking for hotels during spring break, I had no problem (in fact, I was almost bombarded) with places specializing in 'temporary housing for foreigners.' It was like an apartment that you rented per month, instead of signing a lease for a year (or whatever). This isn't what I was looking for, so I just counted it as spam and moved on, but I believe that they exist somewhere.

As for getting a visa from a Japanese company -- I'm pretty sure the language barrier isn't going to be your biggest problem. Actually getting them to hire you is way tougher, even if you do have perfect Japanese.
My professor, who did get hired, said they asked him (rather rudely for an interview) "You plan on quitting, don't you?"
Hint: "Yes" is the wrong answer. However, if you're just looking for a visa, this is probably what the true answer is going to be, anyway.

ta12121 Wrote:Well my friend said it's 3-months but he said research the details on your own for more in-depth facts and such. As for the housing hmmm, not sure. If it's hotels and such, oh man it's going to be expensive as crazy. But if it's an apartment then it would be cheaper, but you'd have to make your own food or go out.
There various types of visa and such, some related to working in a japnaese company. But I'd say you'd have to be functional in japanese in all skills if your wanting to work in a full japanese environment

if it's just for 3 months, i don't think visa is even an issue. the way i understand it, pretty much anyone can get a 3 month visitor visa. Then for housing, i figure i will just save up enough money to pay for 3 months of *something* up front. the *something* though is what i haven't researched much, so i don't know what options would be available. As for money while you're there, i imagine everyone will have different methods: savings, under the table work, etc. I personally have a telecommute job so i would not have to stop working and would still be pulling income back home.

activeaero Wrote:There is another way to move to Japan, and that is through a U.S. government job. I don't mean military either. The U.S. embassy contains staff from numerous civilian agencies that includes non-special agent positions, known as "professional support staff".

For example the FBI Legat offices located all around the world. These offices have a few agents, but also normal non-agent support staff: http://www.fbi.gov/contact/legat/legat.htm

And from the inside let me tell you that a lot of these support staff personnel do NOT possess any language ability for the country they are assigned too. In fact, from speaking with the head Special Agent of the Tokyo Legat (basically stands for legal attachment), he informed me that none of his support staff have any Japanese ability......even though it is listed as a very desirable skill during the selection process. The reason is because most of the government, well at least the FBI, now contracts out it's linguists. That means most of the people who would come to work for the FBI due to their great Japanese ability won't actually be official FBI employees, and thus aren't eligible to work in a Legat office.

So what this means is that if you can get on with the FBI in any capacity as an official employee, even if you start as a "lowly" office clerk, and have some language ability on the side, you might actually have a pretty decent shot at an overseas office after just a couple of years. As a side note the competition for offices like Tokyo is also VERY low from what I hear......as in sometimes only one or two people apply for it when openings come up lol. Most adults never think twice about Japan and simply want to grab one of the European openings. That and most people in the FBI have family so they simply don't apply for any legats in the first place.

This of course kind of blows my mind because the setup is pretty much a dream job.

You get a paid apartment in Akasaka about 2-3 times the size of what a "normal" single Japanese person would have, which isn't surprising since the housing allowance for a single person is around $70,000 per year.

Your base government pay + an additional $1,000 per month........tax free.

They'll pay to send your kids to school and pay for you to go to language school or to complete your bachelors or masters degree while you are there.

So basically you get everything for free and your paycheck is pure spending money.

This is just for the FBI of course, but there are several other agencies with similar setups.

That is awesome. Wonder if I can get it though...

ta12121 Wrote:WALL OF QUOTED TEXT
--one line of, arguably, completely irrelevant feedback---

I've seen you be guilty of things like this before, but you just opened up the perfect opportunity:

Netiquette and Newsgroup Etiquette Wrote:Don't over quote: Copying back a long post (more than 20 lines) just to add "I agree" or "me too" is considered bad form and wastes download time. Look at the size of the post you are answering and if it is over 10k trim out the portions that are not relevant to your answer. If you are only answering a portion of a question trim out the bits that are not pertinent to your answer.

While this was written for newsgroups, due to the fact that they are the predecessors to today's forums, I believe it's still very relevant. Except for the "if it's over 10k" line. It doesn't work like that anymore.

A good rule of thumb is -- "Never quote the entire post, unless what you write is going to be longer [and more meaningful] than the post you are quoting"

edit: source: http://www.gotfusion.com/tutsTD/groupetiquette.cfm
and/or very quick google search and/or common sense

@Asriel
I agree with what your saying. But I guess I didn't really have much to add other than, wonder if I can get it though...
I guess it's possible but personally I think I'd rather work on my Japanese first hand and then worry about visiting japan/working there,etc

Wonder what Virtua_Leaf's been up to? They always seemed very focused and dedicated in their study...

@ta12121 its not that what you say doesnt matter, its that you quote gigantic posts. and then post a sentence or two. just leave the points you are replying to.

i, for one, read this forum on my phone about half of the time, and its annoying to scroll through a post ive already read