Meh, listening without the subs works sooo much better than listening with the subs. It is very hard in the beggining, because you'll be clueless all the time, but hey. Get used to be clueless.

The thing about subtitles is that you'll mostly pick up disconnected vocabulary tainted with english.

You need to function in japanese. What you learn by translating to english, you'll have to re-learn in japanese only.

I agree. Also, just the fact that you understand what is going on when you have subs on is bad. Understanding everything is bad several ways. You get a false impression that you understand a lot or enough to get by--basically, you understand more than you think you do. The not understanding everything seems to be important b/c it forces you to try and understand more. Seeing if you can at least follow the basics of a new series w/o subs is important.

yeah i really don'tl ike not knowing everything thecharacter's are saying so forthe "Raw" dramasI do watch.I can do it without any regret etc becauseI have the script in japanese plus sometimes it's a matter of not being able to "catch" what they're saying even though you know all the words the character said.

for anime I watch it subbed causewell I wanna enjoy it and I know I'm not learningomuch from it, etc. but to compensate for that i sometimes read people's kansou/thoughts of the episode after or arasuji/summary. but i'm starting to read manga so i think that would off-set/I mean would help me the most. It's like the script prettty much.

What I do watch raw (obviously no choice and obviously english subs can't really do these types of shows justice whatsoever) is like talk shows/variety shows and usuaslly they have text on the screen so if i REALLY wanted to know why they're laughing I can usually look it up.

Virtua_Leaf Wrote:

playadom Wrote:Seriously though, I've heard a few of their lessons, and I'm under the opinion that they're worth subscribing to. Support them! They're good!

If I was to sign up for the cheapest sub going (think it's $8 for a month), is there the option to download every audio lesson at once?

I'm pretty sure you can just mass-download while under subscription. You could also get the pdfs of whatever is included in a basic sub.

playadom Wrote:

Virtua_Leaf Wrote:

playadom Wrote:Seriously though, I've heard a few of their lessons, and I'm under the opinion that they're worth subscribing to. Support them! They're good!

If I was to sign up for the cheapest sub going (think it's $8 for a month), is there the option to download every audio lesson at once?

I'm pretty sure you can just mass-download while under subscription. You could also get the pdfs of whatever is included in a basic sub.

Sounds well worth it then.

Cheers.

igordesu Wrote:

julz6453 Wrote:

igordesu Wrote:I'd also take metat's advice to just listen. I turned off the subs a little while ago and I've seen my understanding jump from 10% to 30-40% pretty quickly (I just pulled that statistic out of nowhere, though; it's just a guess...)

Honestly, I learn better with the subs on. This way, I'm hearing words in Japanese and seeing them in English, and my brain automatically links them up. I've found myself understanding words that I've never studied before, all just from my brain subconsciously storing them away from repeated exposure.

I used to say the same exact thing. Just trust me. Even if you don't want to try it permanently, turn off the subs for a week. Just a week. You'll see what I mean.

The only subs I is using, atm, are Japanese ones. Much like with the English one's, though, I tend to tune out what they are saying and focus on trying to read it. Now I only cut them on from time to time.

On another note, I just watched a few episodes of House with Japanese subtitles. I was surprised by the way English phrases translated into Japanese.

I have had constant exposure (even while sleeping) with News Podcasts (日経トレンディ・爆笑問題) , music, subless anime/drama/dubbed, video game cutscenes) for the past 7-8 months. I cant believe how much better i am able to comprehend a native spoken sentence compared to before. It has gone from being gibberish to words that I dont know what they mean. Kazalee described it well as puzzle with pieces comming together. Learning vocab with out listening you still wont catch the word when it is said. But guess what all those 1,000's of hours listening to Japanese you cant yet understand does for you, is gets you used to the sound of the language and speech patterns...it isn't about understanding all the time... It is a good sign when you can "hear" a word you dont know and then type it into your dict. Shoot in just 7-8 months of listening ..whenever I learn a new word..it JUMPS out at me now. That never used to happen before in my previous methods of studies. Everyone that says you cannot learn by listening to something you understand 0% is completely wrong...i did. My ability in listening has gone up sooo much since I removed the subs. If watching anime with subs helped...trust me..half of us should be fluent by now, i know i would be. And for the record japanesepod101 does help..it helped me a little, but i found it boring and quit..and just went back to trying to understand the crazy letters (usually sex themed) the listeners send to the 爆笑問題podcast staff to read out. That seems to hold my attention better than that 外国人 with the interesting "accent".

saizen Wrote:and just went back to trying to understand the crazy letters (usually sex themed) the listeners send to the 爆笑問題podcast staff to read out. That seems to hold my attention better than that 外国人 with the interesting "accent".

Well, what's better, trying to listen to twenty minutes a day of something you're not all that interested in but think you have to do to improve your Japanese, or listening to something that's really awesome that's way above your level for several hours a day?

I know I'm getting better. I've been listening to Japanese for four months straight and the other day I just watched a movie and understood pretty much most of what was going on.

alyks Wrote:Well, what's better, trying to listen to twenty minutes a day of something you're not all that interested in but think you have to do to improve your Japanese, or listening to something that's really awesome that's way above your level for several hours a day?

The former?

Because listening several hours a day to something I can't understand isn't really 'fun'. And fun is the golden rule, right?

[edit: ]

Thora Wrote:

alyks Wrote:Well, what's better, trying to listen to twenty minutes a day of something you're not all that interested in but think you have to do to improve your Japanese, or listening to something that's really awesome that's way above your level for several hours a day?

The former?

Because listening several hours a day to something I can't understand isn't really 'fun'. And fun is the golden rule, right?

That about sums up how I've always felt on the issue as well. But, if you really enjoy it and seem to be getting something out of it, all the more power to you. Personally, I don't think it needs to be an either/or scenario. Why not do a bit of structured learning and a bit of unstructured learning?

I agree with Dragg here. The question was irrelevant, what's important is having fun.

IMO, Not understanding what's going on is perfectly fun! So, in the beginning when you don't understand anything, it's not like you're supposed to sit there idly listening and wait for something to happen and for you to understand stuff. For me, part of the fun is trying to understand what you don't understand. It's fun to watch an entire anime series you've never seen before w/o subs and try to figure stuff out. You'll surprise yourself. It's easier than you think to understand stuff based on context clues, etc.

I have a collection of Naturo and Rurouni Kenshin animes that I watch and enjoy. I will watch them once with English subtitles and then many times without. I do the same with Japanese movies. If it makes it more fun knowing what is going on, I will watch more often and learn more even if it is at a little slower pace.

igordesu Wrote:IMO, Not understanding what's going on is perfectly fun!

I can attest to that. Wait, are we still talking about Japanese?

I got frustrated while watching a show a couple of days ago. I was like, "[Elena Bobbit] what the [heck] are they saying. I feel like a [freaking] child. "

Then I was like ooohhh.....

bodhisamaya Wrote:

igordesu Wrote:IMO, Not understanding what's going on is perfectly fun!

I can attest to that. Wait, are we still talking about Japanese?

ROFL. Nice.

Oh yeah, so I have another question for people who have been listening w/o subs for like 8 months. In your opinion, how much does consciously listening vs. just having it on make a difference? For example, I have Japanese on as much as possible. But I only consciously watch anime like 2-3-ish episodes per day. I mean, I'll often do more. But sometimes I can only do like one. I'm worried that I'm not getting enough conscious listening in. Or maybe it doesn't make a difference and just having Japanese on in the background really is magical in itself? What's your opinion?

igordesu Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:

igordesu Wrote:IMO, Not understanding what's going on is perfectly fun!

I can attest to that. Wait, are we still talking about Japanese?

ROFL. Nice.

Oh yeah, so I have another question for people who have been listening w/o subs for like 8 months. In your opinion, how much does consciously listening vs. just having it on make a difference? For example, I have Japanese on as much as possible. But I only consciously watch anime like 2-3-ish episodes per day. I mean, I'll often do more. But sometimes I can only do like one. I'm worried that I'm not getting enough conscious listening in. Or maybe it doesn't make a difference and just having Japanese on in the background really is magical in itself? What's your opinion?

I look at it as trying to push Japanese into active listening all the time. I'll watch things then listen to them throughout the day. Listen to them carefully when I can or I notice a certain part coming up. That is what really helps with passive listening.

The repetition helps a lot. Throughout the day you hear people say certain phrases and you basically get to the point where you memorize them, even if it's gibberish. Then you encounter the words somewhere else and make the connection and it's unforgettable.

Virtua_Leaf Wrote:

playadom Wrote:Seriously though, I've heard a few of their lessons, and I'm under the opinion that they're worth subscribing to. Support them! They're good!

If I was to sign up for the cheapest sub going (think it's $8 for a month), is there the option to download every audio lesson at once?

If you create a free account, you automatically get a one-week trial of their Premium service.

It takes about a day to download all of the MP3s and PDFs from the site using a download manager.

alyks Wrote:I look at it as trying to push Japanese into active listening all the time. I'll watch things then listen to them throughout the day. Listen to them carefully when I can or I notice a certain part coming up. That is what really helps with passive listening.

The repetition helps a lot. Throughout the day you hear people say certain phrases and you basically get to the point where you memorize them, even if it's gibberish. Then you encounter the words somewhere else and make the connection and it's unforgettable.

Exactly. I do a lot of passive listening throughout the day, usually because, for one reason or another, I can't actively listen at those times. You do surprise yourself with what your brain picks up. You're not really conscious of it, but something is going on, and before you know it, even though you're not paying a lot of attention, you being to notice patterns. Words and phrases jump out at you.

It's not a substitute for active listening, yet for those times of the day when active listening is impractical, passive listening does wonders.

playadom Wrote:I'm pretty sure you can just mass-download while under subscription. You could also get the pdfs of whatever is included in a basic sub.

Sorry, do you know the exact way to do this? I can't seem to find out and I'd hate to pay for nothing.

Or...

vgambit Wrote:

Virtua_Leaf Wrote:

playadom Wrote:Seriously though, I've heard a few of their lessons, and I'm under the opinion that they're worth subscribing to. Support them! They're good!

If I was to sign up for the cheapest sub going (think it's $8 for a month), is there the option to download every audio lesson at once?

If you create a free account, you automatically get a one-week trial of their Premium service.

It takes about a day to download all of the MP3s and PDFs from the site using a download manager.

This sounds good but I have no idea what a download manager is. Could someone give me a tech-tard friendly explanation?

timcampbell Wrote:Exactly. I do a lot of passive listening throughout the day, usually because, for one reason or another, I can't actively listen at those times. You do surprise yourself with what your brain picks up. You're not really conscious of it, but something is going on, and before you know it, even though you're not paying a lot of attention, you being to notice patterns. Words and phrases jump out at you.

It's not a substitute for active listening, yet for those times of the day when active listening is impractical, passive listening does wonders.

Cool. I was wondering whether there would be any point in doing something like this but now I'll give it a try. Something to break the timely monotony that is sentence reviewing (had over 400 yesterday!).

And for what it's worth, I seem to enjoy listening to raw Japanese without any guidelines. It creates the illusion I'm fluent at least and that in itself feels good. Though I've started managing to pick things up recently too and can even laugh (occasionally) at some of the things being said in 爆笑問題.

Though the structure of JapanesePod is definitely helping as well.

Someone should buy a month subscription and download every PDF from Jpod then zip em all up and put them up for download. Illegal? Probably. Awesome? Yes.

I stopped listening to JapanesePod101. I finished the Newbie series seasons 2 through 4, then got about 60 episodes into the Beginner lessons before I decided to just listen to Japanese podcasts instead. I think I made the right decision.

I do a lot of listening during the day too.
Meh, I'm more and more convinced that its much easier to memorize readings for sounds that you are used over sounds that you are not so used.
For instance, words that use しょう are the easiest to remember.

Virtua_Leaf Wrote:Sorry, do you know the exact way to do this? I can't seem to find out and I'd hate to pay for nothing.

Use iTunes to subscribe to a massive podcast feed of all the data, and have it do the downloading for you.

I paid for a year subscription, but this was the first thing I did.

(Actually, I made a bunch of small feeds so I could put them on my iPod as I wanted them. Same difference.)

vgambit Wrote:If you create a free account, you automatically get a one-week trial of their Premium service.

It takes about a day to download all of the MP3s and PDFs from the site using a download manager.

Unless things have changed in the past year or two, there is an unadvertised limit to the number of PDFs you can download on the free trial. (I think it was 10.) Everything else acts the same as a real premium account.

wccrawford Wrote:

Virtua_Leaf Wrote:Sorry, do you know the exact way to do this? I can't seem to find out and I'd hate to pay for nothing.

Use iTunes to subscribe to a massive podcast feed of all the data, and have it do the downloading for you.

I paid for a year subscription, but this was the first thing I did.

(Actually, I made a bunch of small feeds so I could put them on my iPod as I wanted them. Same difference.)

Ok! Paid for a month's sub and think I've managed to download all the lessons I wanted already.

But there's one slight problem. My iPod plays them all in reverse order. They're in the right order in my playlist and even when I drag them to iPod they'll look in the right order (ie. 50-60). But they export in reverse, play in reverse and when I plug my iPod back in it loads them up in reverse. No matter if I re-order them they'll come out 60-50.

Can anyone help? (sorry if I didn't explain things probably, my head's pounded right now )