Here's another interesting bit of information regarding ON: not only were the ON readings taken from different times and places (regional language and dialects affecting the reading), but some (many?) are also taken from Cantonese! This is not based on any research of my own, but personal experience.

I lived in Japan for the last two years, and I'm now teaching in Hong Kong. Everywhere I go I notice pronunciations that fit the On readings in Japan. For example, I lived in　福井 in Japan, the reading from 福　being taken directly from Cantonese (romanized as "fook" here). Very cool.

Long story short: if you are wanting to look at the movement of ON readings, be willing to do enough research to write a thesis on the historical and geographical points of departure from China. As with many things in the study of Kanji and Hanzi, it does not neatly fit into one box.

Tobberoth Wrote:I don't think there must be two characters to make up a word in Chinese, I think just one is fine in some cases.

I heard from a friend that most of the time they use at least 2 characters for a word and never one.

liosama Wrote:

Tobberoth Wrote:I don't think there must be two characters to make up a word in Chinese, I think just one is fine in some cases.

I heard from a friend that most of the time they use at least 2 characters for a word and never one.

Now that I've learned some basic mandarin I can back my claim more than 80% of the words I know are one hanzi words. Examples:

wo3 = me
ni3 = you
shi4 = to be
mai3 = to buy
xiang3 = to want to
yao4 = to need to
hao3 = good
hen3 = very
qian2 = money

etc etc.

The majority of words are definitely two or more, but there's TONS of one hanzi words.

Don't worry about the tones Tobberoth. From my experience with Cantonese you'll reach a point where they start to become second nature. After that, with your knowledge of kanji and the relatively easy rules of Chinese grammar, it'll all fall into place quickly.

You'll find the words similar to Japanese, where most kanji have a meaning on their own, and can also be used in compounds. The benefit, as mentioned earlier in this thread, is the pronunciation doesn't change.

In my experience, learning language tones is like learning to sing without an instrument. You always have to know which note to start from. I've got my Vietnamese tones down, but I still make random mistakes. When I'm speaking Vietnamese, I sometimes use the wrong tone for one part of a word, but it really does not happen often. My mistakes are usually switching the tones of a compound word, reversing the word (dyslexia?), but after hearing myself speak it, I always stop and correct my mistake.

@Tobberoth; it's as your friend said, he can hear himself making a mistake. This is because, like in a song, the tones are really easy to recognize while listening, but can be difficult to produce at times. So he's got the tone in his mind, he knows what it sounds like, but he produces it wrong. (I'm assuming here that he's messed up the sound of the tone and not just forgotten the word.)

For me, it took three years of speaking experience to really get the tones down, but then again I was only actively listening around 3-5 hours per day, so it could have taken less time if I knew about full immersion methods. This may sound weird, but as you progress, the tones will take on personalities and become second nature. The stronger the personality, the better you'll be able to recall them.

I suggest reading aloud while recording yourself and matching it up with a native, which I think works a lot better than the "tone mapping" software. Also, read all your cards aloud as you review.

Remembering which tones go to which character sets, or which words, just comes naturally with time. You have to realize that the tone of the word is super crucial, it is literally 50% of the word's meaning. Practicing speaking is the best way to reinforce your tone knowledge, because you can say some horribly embarrassing and memorable stuff with wrong tones, (I have).

Also, males and females do speak a bit differently, so it's best to go with your gender for listening practice.

@Tobberoth: btw, thanks again for introducing me to Audacity, it's become an invaluable tool for me.

Tobberoth Wrote:Now that I've learned some basic mandarin I can back my claim more than 80% of the words I know are one hanzi words. Examples:

The majority of words are definitely two or more, but there's TONS of one hanzi words.

You're gonna get a lot of freebie's from Japanese when you hit the compounds.