Can you derive the formula you're trying to learn? I always found that helped. Or just do so many practice questions that I can't not remember the formula.
2011-04-14, 10:08 am
For the mathematically inclined, what are your impressions of Stroud's Engineering Mathematics as a general text?
http://books.google.com/books?id=FZncL-xB8dEC
http://books.google.com/books?id=FZncL-xB8dEC
2011-04-14, 10:11 am
My education system doesn't support deriving and right now I don't have time for that 
I have 8 hours left until going to sleep and tomorrow I basically have a practice exam that tests my 12 years of math knowledge. I'm pretty much doomed. I hope to at least cover 4 things:
trig, logarithm, geometry and functions
This is the first day that I have time for studying/revising at home...
thanks for help
I have 8 hours left until going to sleep and tomorrow I basically have a practice exam that tests my 12 years of math knowledge. I'm pretty much doomed. I hope to at least cover 4 things:
trig, logarithm, geometry and functions
This is the first day that I have time for studying/revising at home...
thanks for help
Edited: 2011-04-14, 10:16 am
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2011-04-14, 10:16 am
nest0r Wrote:For the mathematically inclined, what are your impressions of Stroud's Engineering Mathematics as a general text?It seems quite easy to read and goes back to basics so I'd say it's a good introduction to maths.
http://books.google.com/books?id=FZncL-xB8dEC
2011-04-14, 10:19 am
jettyke Wrote:My education system doesn't support deriving and right now I don't have time for thatYou can always look up derivations online but if you're short on time what I would do is cram the more difficult formulae and then as soon the test started just write them all out.
I have 8 hours left until going to sleep and tomorrow I basically have a practice exam that tests my 12 years of math knowledge. I'm pretty much doomed. I hope to at least cover 4 things:
trig, logarithm, geometry and functions
This is the first day that I have time for studying/revising at home...
thanks for help
Anyway, good luck with your test!
2011-04-14, 10:44 am
I think SRS would work better for math problems than facts but I have yet to test this out myself. I only have one math class for uni anyways. XD
2011-04-14, 6:04 pm
I tried it for my "Mathematical analysis I" class, but it was more because on the exam the professor expected you to be able to reproduce everything (every proof, derivation, theorem, ...) that was found in the textbook by heart. I ditched it by the time I reached 100 cards.
Why didn't it work?
1)making the cards is INCREDIBLY cumbersome. All the LaTeX, copying from the textbook (he refused to send me the LaTeX source), ...
Not only that, but choosing what to put in the cards took way too much time too. Mathematics is something holistic per definition, it's sooo hard to chop it up into pieces.
2) It didn't help one bit. In fact, my knowledge of the chapters where I DIDN'T use anki have sticked better than the chapters where I did. I think it's because using an SRS for maths gives your mind the impression you're doing something mechanical, while maths (theoretical maths that is) is something dynamic and creative.
All the cool theorems and proofs that I SRS'd became boring mechanical machines, while those that I studied with classical methods have stayed forever in my mind as works of pure art.
3) It's boring. Maths is so bloody interesting, but chopping it up into manageable, SRSable pieces makes you lose the big picture, and you won't see the incredibly beautiful interconnectedness of all those theorems. You'll just see formulae and boring statements.
Make some mindmaps instead. mindmaps for maths are probably the best thing since the invention of the decimal system.
So even though such a reproduction-centered maths class might look like the perfect candidate for SRS, it was a miserable failure.
I didn't/wouldn't even TRY doing it in production-centered classes like linear algebra or abstract algebra (my uni's teaching methods might differ from yours).
If you SRS'd the proof of the existence of a basis of a vector space using maximal linear independent sets, how the hell would this help you in inventing a proof of the same thing based on minimal generating sets? It does NOT, only a very very careful analysis of the proof will. This was a real question on my exam by the way.
SRS does not promote understanding in maths. Just as it does not promote understanding of grammar. Why does it work for language then? because understanding is not necessary in language. A lot of people don't understand the grammar of their native language, but still they speak fluently. I've never met a mathematician that doesn't understand how proofs work.
As for maths problems (derivatives and other boring crap like that), I think that it might help to memorize the basics like (x^n)'=nx^n-1, but anything that's even a bit challenging is waaaaay to long to put in an srs. And don't try to convince me that you can chop up a single problem in its intermediate steps because IMO that's bollocks. Solving a maths problem is a holistic thing, it's about the procedure from beginning to end. Your mind needs to see where you're coming from and where you're going. You can't solve half an integral...
The only way to properly learn maths in my eyes is to get good explanations. Be it from a teacher or a textbook. If your teacher AND textbook both suck, find another textbook or get tutoring. Wikipedia also rules for maths.
Once you get past a certain point of understanding (there's never full understanding in maths), you look back at how damn basic and easy the stuff actually is you were struggling with so much. Because in reality maths IS easy. It's just so damn hard to put the concepts and ideas into words or formulae.
Really, for me, nothing else works but just locking myself up in the library and staring for hours on end at my textbooks. After a while you begin to make sense of the nonsense that's written down there.
That, and growth. Only in gaining more knowledge of higher maths will you get a deeper understanding of the lower maths. There is always some kind of more general theorem, something more abstract and deep.
And on a random side note, is it just me or are there more mathematicians/scientists here than you would expect for a language learning forum? =P
Cheers
Jorre
Why didn't it work?
1)making the cards is INCREDIBLY cumbersome. All the LaTeX, copying from the textbook (he refused to send me the LaTeX source), ...
Not only that, but choosing what to put in the cards took way too much time too. Mathematics is something holistic per definition, it's sooo hard to chop it up into pieces.
2) It didn't help one bit. In fact, my knowledge of the chapters where I DIDN'T use anki have sticked better than the chapters where I did. I think it's because using an SRS for maths gives your mind the impression you're doing something mechanical, while maths (theoretical maths that is) is something dynamic and creative.
All the cool theorems and proofs that I SRS'd became boring mechanical machines, while those that I studied with classical methods have stayed forever in my mind as works of pure art.
3) It's boring. Maths is so bloody interesting, but chopping it up into manageable, SRSable pieces makes you lose the big picture, and you won't see the incredibly beautiful interconnectedness of all those theorems. You'll just see formulae and boring statements.
Make some mindmaps instead. mindmaps for maths are probably the best thing since the invention of the decimal system.
So even though such a reproduction-centered maths class might look like the perfect candidate for SRS, it was a miserable failure.
I didn't/wouldn't even TRY doing it in production-centered classes like linear algebra or abstract algebra (my uni's teaching methods might differ from yours).
If you SRS'd the proof of the existence of a basis of a vector space using maximal linear independent sets, how the hell would this help you in inventing a proof of the same thing based on minimal generating sets? It does NOT, only a very very careful analysis of the proof will. This was a real question on my exam by the way.
SRS does not promote understanding in maths. Just as it does not promote understanding of grammar. Why does it work for language then? because understanding is not necessary in language. A lot of people don't understand the grammar of their native language, but still they speak fluently. I've never met a mathematician that doesn't understand how proofs work.
As for maths problems (derivatives and other boring crap like that), I think that it might help to memorize the basics like (x^n)'=nx^n-1, but anything that's even a bit challenging is waaaaay to long to put in an srs. And don't try to convince me that you can chop up a single problem in its intermediate steps because IMO that's bollocks. Solving a maths problem is a holistic thing, it's about the procedure from beginning to end. Your mind needs to see where you're coming from and where you're going. You can't solve half an integral...
The only way to properly learn maths in my eyes is to get good explanations. Be it from a teacher or a textbook. If your teacher AND textbook both suck, find another textbook or get tutoring. Wikipedia also rules for maths.
Once you get past a certain point of understanding (there's never full understanding in maths), you look back at how damn basic and easy the stuff actually is you were struggling with so much. Because in reality maths IS easy. It's just so damn hard to put the concepts and ideas into words or formulae.
Really, for me, nothing else works but just locking myself up in the library and staring for hours on end at my textbooks. After a while you begin to make sense of the nonsense that's written down there.
That, and growth. Only in gaining more knowledge of higher maths will you get a deeper understanding of the lower maths. There is always some kind of more general theorem, something more abstract and deep.
And on a random side note, is it just me or are there more mathematicians/scientists here than you would expect for a language learning forum? =P
Cheers
Jorre
Edited: 2011-04-14, 6:07 pm
2011-04-14, 6:19 pm
jorrebenst Wrote:And on a random side note, is it just me or are there more mathematicians/scientists here than you would expect for a language learning forum? =PThat's why we like it so much
Thanks for the post btw.
I still believe that srs can help retain knowledge, but the system is still pretty infantile. ( the math part)
I believe that there can be a use for srs in math as srs is for remembering. And I also agree with your post.
Srs doesn't work for languages exceptionally well. You need to read and immerse a lot besides srs. Srs is just a mere part of learning languages.
And perhaps the same could be for math.
2011-04-15, 1:08 pm
I see a lot of people are expressing a similar conclusion I have come to in my Japanese.
"Memorization alone won't get you good at using something."
Certainly, for basic ideas and concepts it has value - things you don't really need to use, but for actual use it can be less beneficial. (Perhaps, production vs. receptive skills.)
In terms of maths, I would be guessing that if you could find some way to make it production based with a metric ton of receptive material, you would be on the right track. Why not load up your SRS with textbook problems and have information regarding them in SRS question/answer format as well. Something like this would have worked quite well for me during my studies, I imagine, as a lot of the material was stuff that you could do this with.
Just something to consider.
Post 2#
Just one more thought before I hit the sack: Why not find a way to make the Latex part easier? It seems like this is the hardest part of actually making a card. I can think of a few solutions, but others would know better.
Example:
# Create a Word file (or whatever) that contains any Latex code you use. Every time you need something you can quickly search your database and see if you can find something useable.
Most likely the best solution is to find something someone else has prepared or a piece of software that can give you what you need and which you can transfer stuff (cut and paste style) to Anki.
Edit: If you can find software that can create the formula quickly, you could just screenshot it and paste it to Anki. This would be easier than finding something that can turn the formula, whatever, into Latex usable by Anki.
Otherwise, I have to agree with two things that have been said time and time again on these forums and have even been suggested here: 1) keep it short and sweet; 2) Take only what is important. Without these two concepts we get into the world of 'gotta collect them all' (Pokemon). Good questions would be: "How can I make this shorter and faster than I do now?" and "Is this important enough for me to put 2-5 minutes in? Will the return be worth the time and effort I could put elsewhere?" Of course, you need to have the guts to break the rules now and then too.
Post 3#
Ah, solution found. Sooooo... I don't really do maths, but what does Latex achieve that a piece of paper and a camera can't? Or even better, your textbook and a camera? I should really have thought of that before I made three posts on this.
I use the above method for reading manga: One picture for the whole then pictures of every dialogue box. I then "translator agregator" them (thanks Nestor), which takes 1 minute or less (text box 'compare field to x' and copy). The whole process doesn't take long as I do it in batches prior to learning the card.
Edit: I'm suggesting you write what you want on the front and back of the card on a piece of paper and then take a photo of that. If you don't have AnkiMobile you could also do the 'writing out' phase in a notebook and use that for your reviews on the go.
I would also like to point out that I REALLY like the idea of combining this with the mind mapping method suggested above. I could see that as being quite a good method for, first, really burning the understanding of the material into your mind then, finally, reviewing it in a way that allows you to be reminded of your ideas again and again (damn, I wish I had thought of this during university - I did mind maps, but with a digital camera and Anki I could have halved my work.)
Edit: There are also a lot of great mind mapping software packages out there and you could also integrate the photo method above by snapping off pictures of the text you liked and cut and pasting that into your mind map, rather than typing it in.
Post 4#
You know looking at the above, I have to say that this is exactly what is happening to my SRS system of late. Awhile ago I stopped using it to SRS stuff (in the traditional sense: word lists, sentences, ) and started using it to really just learn and enjoy stuff (I do manga cards from actual manga. I do video and music cards from things I want to understand and I enjoy. The only thing I have that isn't there because I like it is my grammar deck and even that is sort of fun to use.)
Anki has really became a place to put my media, rather than a machine that churns out the same boring old vocabulary, sentences or MCD cards over and over again. (Of course, there is repetition, but just looking at it there is no longer any ties to what I believed was 'good old' SRSing back in the day; it's more about seeing, hearing and reading what I enjoy and then getting to enjoy it again later - I love Ichigo's lines in Bleach Episode 309 and some of the Naruto and Zetsubo Sensei stuff is just hilarious.)
"Memorization alone won't get you good at using something."
Certainly, for basic ideas and concepts it has value - things you don't really need to use, but for actual use it can be less beneficial. (Perhaps, production vs. receptive skills.)
In terms of maths, I would be guessing that if you could find some way to make it production based with a metric ton of receptive material, you would be on the right track. Why not load up your SRS with textbook problems and have information regarding them in SRS question/answer format as well. Something like this would have worked quite well for me during my studies, I imagine, as a lot of the material was stuff that you could do this with.
Just something to consider.
Post 2#
Just one more thought before I hit the sack: Why not find a way to make the Latex part easier? It seems like this is the hardest part of actually making a card. I can think of a few solutions, but others would know better.
Example:
# Create a Word file (or whatever) that contains any Latex code you use. Every time you need something you can quickly search your database and see if you can find something useable.
Most likely the best solution is to find something someone else has prepared or a piece of software that can give you what you need and which you can transfer stuff (cut and paste style) to Anki.
Edit: If you can find software that can create the formula quickly, you could just screenshot it and paste it to Anki. This would be easier than finding something that can turn the formula, whatever, into Latex usable by Anki.
Otherwise, I have to agree with two things that have been said time and time again on these forums and have even been suggested here: 1) keep it short and sweet; 2) Take only what is important. Without these two concepts we get into the world of 'gotta collect them all' (Pokemon). Good questions would be: "How can I make this shorter and faster than I do now?" and "Is this important enough for me to put 2-5 minutes in? Will the return be worth the time and effort I could put elsewhere?" Of course, you need to have the guts to break the rules now and then too.
Post 3#
Ah, solution found. Sooooo... I don't really do maths, but what does Latex achieve that a piece of paper and a camera can't? Or even better, your textbook and a camera? I should really have thought of that before I made three posts on this.
I use the above method for reading manga: One picture for the whole then pictures of every dialogue box. I then "translator agregator" them (thanks Nestor), which takes 1 minute or less (text box 'compare field to x' and copy). The whole process doesn't take long as I do it in batches prior to learning the card.
Edit: I'm suggesting you write what you want on the front and back of the card on a piece of paper and then take a photo of that. If you don't have AnkiMobile you could also do the 'writing out' phase in a notebook and use that for your reviews on the go.
I would also like to point out that I REALLY like the idea of combining this with the mind mapping method suggested above. I could see that as being quite a good method for, first, really burning the understanding of the material into your mind then, finally, reviewing it in a way that allows you to be reminded of your ideas again and again (damn, I wish I had thought of this during university - I did mind maps, but with a digital camera and Anki I could have halved my work.)
Edit: There are also a lot of great mind mapping software packages out there and you could also integrate the photo method above by snapping off pictures of the text you liked and cut and pasting that into your mind map, rather than typing it in.
Post 4#
You know looking at the above, I have to say that this is exactly what is happening to my SRS system of late. Awhile ago I stopped using it to SRS stuff (in the traditional sense: word lists, sentences, ) and started using it to really just learn and enjoy stuff (I do manga cards from actual manga. I do video and music cards from things I want to understand and I enjoy. The only thing I have that isn't there because I like it is my grammar deck and even that is sort of fun to use.)
Anki has really became a place to put my media, rather than a machine that churns out the same boring old vocabulary, sentences or MCD cards over and over again. (Of course, there is repetition, but just looking at it there is no longer any ties to what I believed was 'good old' SRSing back in the day; it's more about seeing, hearing and reading what I enjoy and then getting to enjoy it again later - I love Ichigo's lines in Bleach Episode 309 and some of the Naruto and Zetsubo Sensei stuff is just hilarious.)
Edited: 2011-04-15, 1:52 pm
2011-04-15, 1:56 pm
OP here - yes, I still occasionally come here to lurk. Maybe I'll start posting again considering I've recently restarted Japanese study.
I'd just like to say - if you do this, be very, VERY careful not to spend too much time on it. Keep the number of cards you add to a minimum, and keep them short. This is from personal experience - the SRS ate into my time to a very detrimental effect on my studies, exactly the thing it was supposed to be helping!
I'd just like to say - if you do this, be very, VERY careful not to spend too much time on it. Keep the number of cards you add to a minimum, and keep them short. This is from personal experience - the SRS ate into my time to a very detrimental effect on my studies, exactly the thing it was supposed to be helping!
Cranks Wrote:"Memorization alone won't get you good at using something."QFT x 100. Bear this in mind!