日本語を勉強するために日本に引っ越しました。今、バイトしながら、毎日大阪の学校で勉強しています。生活は住みやすいなんですけど、最近はイライラしています。

問題を二つがあります。

１。僕のバイトは英語を教えることです。日本人といしょうに働きます。授業の時、私たちはいつも英語でしゃべる。学生のために日本語を使わない。その場合は良いと思います。

でも、準備とこ日常会話をしている時、私は日本語で話してみますが、同僚はいつも英語で答えられた。同僚は英語で答えたら、ちょっと残念を感じします。多分、外のRTK使っている人は似合っている経験があるかも知りません。。。そのような経験があったら、アドバイスをしてくれませんか。

２。仕事じゃなくて、地下鉄の電車からカラオケバーまで日本人はいつも私と英語で話したいです。日本語で話したら、答えはだいたい英語です。。。多分、日本人の立場から、私の顔は無料英会話の広告かもしりませんね。

大変ですね。どうしょう？

英語で話すことは大丈夫ですが、どうやって私の場合を丁寧に説明するか分からない。私の目標は英語でしゃべることですね。私の目標は日本語が上手になります。

同じ気持ちを持っていた人はいると思います。何をしましたか。おすすめは？

心機一転したいんですけど。。。どうやって直しますか。

TGWeaver Wrote:でも、準備とこ日常会話をしている時、私は日本語で話してみますが、同僚はいつも英語で答えられた。同僚は英語で答えたら、ちょっと残念を感じします。多分、外のRTK使っている人は似合っている経験があるかも知りません。。。そのような経験があったら、アドバイスをしてくれませんか。

Two possible reasons:
1. They hardly ever get a chance to speak English outside of work. Obviously they chose this field because of their interest in English, and the number of foreigners who speak English is limited.

2. Their English is better than your Japanese, so it's easier to communicate in your tongue.

Quote:２。仕事じゃなくて、地下鉄の電車からカラオケバーまで日本人はいつも私と英語で話したいです。日本語で話したら、答えはだいたい英語です。。。多分、日本人の立場から、私の顔は無料英会話の広告かもしりませんね。

大変ですね。どうしょう？

What's the matter with people wanting to practice English with you?

Quote:英語で話すことは大丈夫ですが、どうやって私の場合を丁寧に説明するか分からない。私の目標は英語でしゃべることですね (you must mean Japanese, not English here, right?) 。私の目標は日本語が上手になります。

I don't see anything that needs to be explained. If you want to speak Japanese to better your own abilities, your motives are as selfish as theirs.

Quote:同じ気持ちを持っていた人はいると思います。何をしましたか。おすすめは？

Understand that you are paid to speak English when you are at work, even when you aren't teaching. There isn't anything you can do or should do about this.

Regarding those who always speak English to you: the great, great, majority of the Japanese population can't speak English. Get out of the "I want to hang out with a gaijin and speak English" crowd and find some others that either A)speak worse English than you do Japanese (because the conversation will ultimately begin to use the language that is easier to communicate in), or B)have no interest in English.

samesong Wrote:

TGWeaver Wrote:でも、準備とこ日常会話をしている時、私は日本語で話してみますが、同僚はいつも英語で答えられた。同僚は英語で答えたら、ちょっと残念を感じします。多分、外のRTK使っている人は似合っている経験があるかも知りません。。。そのような経験があったら、アドバイスをしてくれませんか。

Two possible reasons:
1. They hardly ever get a chance to speak English outside of work. Obviously they chose this field because of their interest in English, and the number of foreigners who speak English is limited.

2. Their English is better than your Japanese, so it's easier to communicate in your tongue.

Quote:２。仕事じゃなくて、地下鉄の電車からカラオケバーまで日本人はいつも私と英語で話したいです。日本語で話したら、答えはだいたい英語です。。。多分、日本人の立場から、私の顔は無料英会話の広告かもしりませんね。

大変ですね。どうしょう？

What's the matter with people wanting to practice English with you?

Quote:英語で話すことは大丈夫ですが、どうやって私の場合を丁寧に説明するか分からない。私の目標は英語でしゃべることですね (you must mean Japanese, not English here, right?) 。私の目標は日本語が上手になります。

I don't see anything that needs to be explained. If you want to speak Japanese to better your own abilities, your motives are as selfish as theirs.

Quote:同じ気持ちを持っていた人はいると思います。何をしましたか。おすすめは？

Understand that you are paid to speak English when you are at work, even when you aren't teaching. There isn't anything you can do or should do about this.

Regarding those who always speak English to you: the great, great, majority of the Japanese population can't speak English. Get out of the "I want to hang out with a gaijin and speak English" crowd and find some others that either A)speak worse English than you do Japanese (because the conversation will ultimately begin to use the language that is easier to communicate in), or B)have no interest in English.

Those were all good points and I've thought them through several times myself. I'm not the first person to find myself in this position and I'm certainly not the last.

Anyway, I guess I made the post for two reasons: (1) If a foreign crowd can understand it, I'm pretty sure that my Japanese colleagues will too. (2) I was hoping someone that used to be in a similar position could offer some advice... it's a pretty delicate subject and the last thing I want to do is offend someone. Specifically, I was hoping for something in Japanese. Expressions and what not...

But one other point: I'm not paid to speak English at all times. I'm paid to teach it in 55 minute junks to children. I'm not a JET (so that whole "cultural ambassador thing" can be ignored) and my bosses aren't Japanese (and generally share the same sentiment as I do... but they've been here for a while and have gotten over it. Both are completely fluent, so they don't really care what language they speak anymore... though the company itself is a dispatch company, so I usually find myself 1 on 1 with a Japanese instructor).

I have a technique to recommend: Whenever a Japanese person comes up to you and asks something like "wer ale u flom?" you answer in Japanese. If they continue with English, you continue with Japanese. Unless they REALLY REALLY want to talk English with you, it will quickly turn to Japanese. And once you have had your first conversation with them in Japanese, the standard between the two of you will be Japanese.

The main advice is, if you want people to speak in Japanese with, don't speak to them in English, at all.

yeah... it's getting a bit territorial, so this might be a good technique.

Quote:(2) I was hoping someone that used to be in a similar position could offer some advice... it's a pretty delicate subject and the last thing I want to do is offend someone. Specifically, I was hoping for something in Japanese. Expressions and what not...

Unless they speak fluently, sincerely complimenting them on their English abilities (In Japanese) with a followup question (In Japanese) that would be normally difficult to answer for them in English will absolutely take the wind out of them every time.

So as soon as you hear them speak English, say something like this.

「英語本当にうまいですね！びっくりしました！ どうして英語に興味を持っているんですか？」

From here it's up to you to keep the ball rolling in Japanese.

here is how my friend responded... it might help people, so i figured i'd post it:

残念ながら、たいていの日本人は、やっぱり、外国人の顔をみると、悪気なく、英語で、答えようとしてしまいます。それは、まだまだ、日本人が、外国人に対して慣れてないからでしょう。で、たくさんの友人が、トムと同じような経験をしています。で、その子も、その事実にがっかりしています。わたしの個人的な意見ですが、その英語で答えられたときに、すぐに、「すみません。日本語で普通に話してもらえませんか。だいたいのことは、理解できるので。わからないときは、後で、確認します。」と、直接、その場で、その人に言ってあげたほうがいいと思います。ほとんどの人が、無意識に英語を使ってしまっていて。相手が、日本語で、話してほしいと言えば、理解してもらえます。

もちろん、癖が出て、すぐに、英語で話し始めるかもしれないけど、なんども、その都度、「すみません。あの~。」と言って、ちょっと、嫌そうな顔を見せると、少しずつ、理解してくれます。ちょっと、めんどくさいけど。

Quote:「すみません。日本語で普通に話してもらえませんか。だいたいのことは、理解できるので。わからないときは、後で、確認します。」と、直接、その場で、その人に言ってあげたほうがいいと思います。ほとんどの人が、無意識に英語を使ってしまっていて。相手が、日本語で、話してほしいと言えば、理解してもらえます。

Imagine if you met a Japanese person in your home country, got really excited because you wanted to practice your Japanese with him/her (after all, how often do you see a Japanese person? hardly ever?), and you work up the courage to choke out a few phrases.

As soon as you do this, your newly found Japanese buddy replies with "Umm.. could you speak in English.. you know.. I can pretty much understand you". (すみません。日本語で普通に話してもらえませんか。だいたいのことは、理解できるので)

How shot down would you feel?

And in Japan saying that to a Japanese person is ten times worse. First, nothing here is "direct", as your friend likes to say. They would assume there is a subtext, which is "your English is ***** horrible. What are you doing trying to communicate that way?" And at the same time, you caused that person to lose face, all in one fell swoop.

You have to be very indirect or very kind about getting others to speak Japanese for you. Saying something as direct as your friend said will do nothing but cause a rift in your relationship, or if there is no relationship, prevent one from ever forming.

samesong Wrote:Two possible reasons: (...)

やっぱり英語になっちゃったな．．．

　まあ．．．それなりに日本語を本当に習いたい日本語の授業を受けている人の気持ちとだいたい同じかもしれませんね。

　その時はしばらく英語で話して、その後日本語にしたらいいと思います。そうすると二人のためにもなるからです。

　ところで、このスレを英語で答えた人も日本語で答えてみたらいいと思いますが．．．

samesong Wrote:Unless they speak fluently, sincerely complimenting them on their English abilities (In Japanese) with a followup question (In Japanese) that would be normally difficult to answer for them in English will absolutely take the wind out of them every time.

それはちょっと駄目なアドバイスだと思います。本当に相手の気持ちを無視することで相手に理解してもらいたいですか？

　TGWweaver、この掲示板で答えてもらっても、日本人に答えてもらったほうがためになるかもしれないので、読売新聞の大手小町というような掲示板に書き込んでみてください、面白い答えが出ると重いから。そして、面白い答えが出たらぜひここにその答えについて書き込んでください。

Transtic Wrote:やっぱり英語になっちゃったな．．．

　まあ．．．それなりに日本語を本当に習いたい日本語の授業を受けている人の気持ちとだいたい同じかもしれませんね。。。　ところで、このスレを英語で答えた人も日本語で答えてみたらいいと思いますが．．．

みんな日本語がはっきりわかるわけじゃないよ。日本語の掲示板なら日本語で書けばいい。しかしここの共通言語は英語だから英語でやりとりすべきだ。

I think you have to accept that there is nothing you can do, except get damn good at Japanese. The reason they feel comfortable speaking to you in English even when you ask them something in Japanese is most likely because there English is better than your Japanese. Not to say that you wouldn't understand their answer in Japanese, but having better 2nd language skills they feel comfortable just using it. It's just hard fumbling with your second language when you know you could switch to your first and they would be fine. So my advice is study hard, get good and show them you rock and some will change. Some of course won't feel this pressure so much and will still use English with you, but there's not much you can do about that.

I have experienced this effect by the way where I work. I have switched the main language we use to Japanese for 2 of the staff.

Until that time, you have to accept that there is nothing you can do about it. They have a right to use English and are obviously aware that you want to speak Japanese. There is also the efficiency of the business you have to consider. If their English is better than your Japanese, then it is quicker and more effective to speak in English.

Aside from getting really good at Japanese, I think you should chill out about getting as much possible speak practice as you can. Make jokes with the staff, have a good time, get to know them and have fun! (sorry if you are doing this already) They are much more likely to chill out themselves and use their native tongue with you if you have a good relationship already. Instead of always asking them things in Japanese, ask them in English. Show that you don't think they are not walking Japanese practice machines. Show them that you are respectful of their desire to practice English and they may do the same when you sometimes speak to them in Japanese. Or maybe not For me at least there is one girl who I have such a relationship with and whether we speak in English or Japanese, we have a good time.

When you are spoken to on the train in English, again be respectful and let them practice their English. If they can't say or communicate something then you can check their meaning in Japanese eg "I work car." "You mean at a car factory?" "Uh what factory?" "車の工場で働いているということですか". When they you see you can speak they Japanese some will be delighted and switch immediately to the much easier language for them, some will be annoyed, some will say yes and ignore it. But I think showing that you have been kind to them will make them more inclined to treat you as a human being rather than an English speaking practice machine.

samesong Wrote:Imagine if you met a Japanese person in your home country, got really excited because you wanted to practice your Japanese with him/her (after all, how often do you see a Japanese person? hardly ever?), and you work up the courage to choke out a few phrases.

As soon as you do this, your newly found Japanese buddy replies with "Umm.. could you speak in English.. you know.. I can pretty much understand you". (すみません。日本語で普通に話してもらえませんか。だいたいのことは、理解できるので)

How shot down would you feel?

This is not really a good example as the Japanese person is highly unlikely to be facing a situation where everyone he meets in that country wants to practise Japanese with him all the time so that kind of response from him is highly unlikely.

My personal policy is drawing a blank face complete with an apologetic smile and making noises to indicate that I'm rather uncomfortable with English. The trick is to look highly confused and embarrased for causing such trouble. I'm very credible at that and I don't feel bad as I am not a native speaker of English. So we can either speak my language or their language. And although they don't know my language, I can passably get by using theirs so there is no reason we should resort to something that is equally alien to both of us.

The reactions have been invariably good. It's also high time Japanese stopped assuming that every white face belongs to an American.

I've quietly watched this thread from the start but let me say something now: thermal showed us some wisdom.

thermal Wrote:I think you have to accept that there is nothing you can do, except get damn good at Japanese. The reason they feel comfortable speaking to you in English even when you ask them something in Japanese is most likely because there English is better than your Japanese. Not to say that you wouldn't understand their answer in Japanese, but having better 2nd language skills they feel comfortable just using it. It's just hard fumbling with your second language when you know you could switch to your first and they would be fine. So my advice is study hard, get good and show them you rock and some will change. Some of course won't feel this pressure so much and will still use English with you, but there's not much you can do about that.

I always called this phenomenon the "language hierarchy". The stronger language shared by both parties almost always takes precedence in a serious conversation.

Serge Wrote:This is not really a good example as the Japanese person is highly unlikely to be facing a situation where everyone he meets in that country wants to practise Japanese with him all the time so that kind of response from him is highly unlikely.

It depends on his or her intentions. If they are to practice English, then such a response would posit a negative reaction. If they aren't to practice English, then you really don't need to say anything at all; simply switching to Japanese at some point is enough (with the assumption that your Japanese ability is stronger than his or her English).

In either case, such a direct reponse isn't necessary.

thermal Wrote:When you are spoken to on the train in English, again be respectful and let them practice their English. If they can't say or communicate something then you can check their meaning in Japanese eg "I work car." "You mean at a car factory?" "Uh what factory?" "車の工場で働いているということですか". When they you see you can speak they Japanese some will be delighted and switch immediately to the much easier language for them, some will be annoyed, some will say yes and ignore it. But I think showing that you have been kind to them will make them more inclined to treat you as a human being rather than an English speaking practice machine.

Spot on! Being kind and maintaining relationships is far, far, more important than insisting on speaking Japanese. I've met these kinds of people (both Japanese wishing to use English and those learning Japanese) who ignore practicalities and insist on speaking the language they're learning. They come off as selfish asses who are more concerned with bettering their own language abilities than actually forming a relationship with you.

1) make friends with people who don't know english. this is the easiest solution! go!

2) maintain an image of someone who speaks in japanese. i guess your problem is that the people you try to speak japanese to see you speaking mostly english. i never spoke english in japan and no one spoke it to me. my japanese friends often spoke english to other foreigners, but not to me. it catches on too: if someone new meets you in a japanese speaking context, they too will speak to you in japanese.

3) if they're really persistent and you just can't stand it, you can tell them you came all the way to their country to learn and use their language, so you'd like to speak in japanese. (they didn't come to yours.) if you put it nicely they should respect that unless they only saw you as free english practice and not a friend. feelings can be easily hurt though so exercise caution.

good luck

stehr Wrote:I always called this phenomenon the "language hierarchy". The stronger language shared by both parties almost always takes precedence in a serious conversation.

So true. So true.

I am always grateful when people correct my Japanese so I hope you don't take offence if I point out some mistakes you made in your post. I used to make (and maybe still do make) the same mistakes and the ones I've pointed out easily turn into bad habits.

TGWeaver Wrote:生活は住みやすいなんですけど、最近はイライラしています。

=> 生活は住みやすいですけど
This mistake is so common and I still fall into it when speaking.

Quote:問題を二つがあります。

=>問題が二つあります。
Never put a particle in between a counter and あります.

Quote:日本人といしょうに働きます。

=>日本人といっしょに働きます。

Quote:経験があるかも知りません

=>経験があるかもしれません

Here are some tips, most of which have already been mentioned.
1. Don't worry about it too much. Getting stressed will make things worse.
2. If the other person replies in English, reply back in Japanese. Don't overdo it though - if it doesn't work, just tell them directly that you'd like to speak in Japanese. Your friend gave you some good lines.
3. Work on your Japanese accent. Being able to sound Japanese will make a huge difference.
4. Change your baito. There are other jobs you can get that don't involve speaking English. They may not pay as well and they may not be as easy to get but they are out there and you CAN get them.
5. Be proactive and get involved in things that you're interested in. If you're passive then people who are interested in English will come to you. I play soccer and the people there don't want to speak English at all.

Hope it helps. You've made a big commitment by coming all the way to Japan so it's not unreasonable at all for you to want to speak Japanese. In fact, if I were Japanese, I'd be delighted.

I agree about the accent thing. It can make people think you're much better at the language than you are. I know a German girl who sounds American but asks for clarification for words like "birthday" and "hobby". It's confusing, but she never gets patronized.