I've been paying more attention to first person references since reading the discussion on pet peeves, but I didn't want to derail another thread . . .

I was at a meeting yesterday with some teachers including two men. One man (in his mid-fifties maybe) presented a paper and then was responding to some criticism. He was mostly using 僕 but occasionally 私 (わたし not わたくし). Another man (maybe in his forties but possibly more senior in this particular group) came back with more criticism/helpful comments, and he used 俺 and 私. When the first man responded again, he switched to 私. Was he maybe subconsciously matching the other man? This was all within just a few minutes, and I couldn't see that there was much difference in what was being said with 僕 or 俺 or 私. In general, people seem to avoid using any sort of first person reference, so it's hard to catch the few times that these come up.

I'm reading Harry Potter in Japanese, and I've found the first person references interesting. Yes, I know there are all sorts of opinions about authenticity, but maybe this is the translator's take on the personality of the various pronouns. Ron and Harry use 僕 -- it seems to be the default for young boys. Dumbledore and Mad Eye Moody and the old man that sells magic wands use わし -- so maybe that's the old man pronoun. Hagrid, Fred and George use 俺 -- the guys who don't follow rules so well and are a bit unruly. Snape uses 我輩 -- imperious and somewhat threatening? Lockhart, the self-obsessed star who collects photos of himself, uses 私 (わたくし) but occasionally uses 私 (わたし) instead. Rita Skeeter, the annoying female reporter, uses あたし.　Arthur Weasley uses 私 (わたし), as do most of the women and girls. I think some of the other male teachers use 私 (わたし), too. That seems to be the default for normal adults who don't have an especially marked presence or strong personality. Dobby the house elf refers to himself as ドビーめ -- so if you want to be humble to the point of groveling, maybe you could just stick a め on the end of your name.

I speak Vietnamese, where the first person pronouns are as varied (more varied?) than Japanese. There are (at least) 10 male first person pronouns in Vietnamese that are frequently used, plus 3 additional female fpp's, excluding the rare ones. I can say that confusion happens a lot, and for many reasons;

1. What do they want to hear? (based on rank, preference, etc),
2. Which one fits you best? (based on rank/self image), or
3. you get confused and forget which pronoun to use, or use the wrong pronoun by accident.

Kristinholly Wrote:I was at a meeting yesterday with some teachers including two men. One man (in his mid-fifties maybe) presented a paper and then was responding to some criticism. He was mostly using 僕 but occasionally 私 (わたし not わたくし). Another man (maybe in his forties but possibly more senior in this particular group) came back with more criticism/helpful comments, and he used 俺 and 私. When the first man responded again, he switched to 私. Was he maybe subconsciously matching the other man?

It's not subconscious.... probably for one of these three reasons .... I know this happens frequently in Vietnamese with native speakers, and when I speak. Frankly, it IS annoying, but it's also a big part of the culture, and using the wrong pronoun can end up in blood being spilled...

Has anyone heard women actually use atashi in real life, or is it a caricature used in fictional works?

Raichu Wrote:Has anyone heard women actually use atashi in real life, or is it a caricature used in fictional works?

Yes, It happens.... depends on the age of the person and who they're talking to. I'd say I probably hear わたし and うち more often, though.

KristinHolly Wrote:Snape uses 我輩 -- imperious and somewhat threatening?

I would guess it is also pretty outdated. Never heard anyone actually using that. Most of the others I hear quite frequently - yes, also あたし

Depends on what kind of girl you're hanging out with and the environment. My gut feeling is that girls are particularly likely to use it when trying to seem cute - which some girls do pretty much all the time. I personally find it very endearing, but I suppose that depends. I hear girls use that a lot.

What's うち? I didn't even know that was a girl's pronoun?

Fight Club dub - Edward Norton uses 僕 and Brad Pitt uses 俺. I think that's pretty illustrative since it's the same character's different facets.

Isn't わし archaic? I vaguely remember that, but dunno - haven't looked it up.

washi isn't archaic, but it isn't common either. If you're not an old man and use it, you sound like you're impersonating some samurai or something.

uchi is not a girl pronoun, it's just a pronoun, I've heard men use it as well. Not very common IMO, most girls seem to use watashi or atashi.

Tobberoth Wrote:uchi is not a girl pronoun, it's just a pronoun, I've heard men use it as well. Not very common IMO, most girls seem to use watashi or atashi.

From my experience it is pretty common when talking about one's own group (family, class, company), aside from that I never heard it.

Evil_Dragon Wrote:

Tobberoth Wrote:uchi is not a girl pronoun, it's just a pronoun, I've heard men use it as well. Not very common IMO, most girls seem to use watashi or atashi.

From my experience it is pretty common when talking about one's own group (family, class, company), aside from that I never heard it.

It certainly does have that meaning and is used that way.

Younger girls/some women do use it as a personal pronoun though, and it's fairly common where I live... although it's apparently a big Kansai thing as well (don't live there, so I can't really speak for that)
Yahoo! Dictionary:
［代］一人称の人代名詞。わたし。わたくし。自分。関西地方で、多く女性が用いる。

I probably should clarify that I spend most of my day hanging out with 15 year olds But my younger female coworkers use it as well (younger meaning roughly my age, I'm 24). I think the older ones tend to stick more to watashi/atashi, but you'll hear them use it as a personal pronoun as well.

I've definitely heard women use うち.
A good example:

I was in a Japanese voice chat room, and there was suddenly a very loud and strange noise. One of the women then explained/apologized, saying[among other things] 「うちのネコです」

KristinHolly Wrote:Dobby the house elf refers to himself as ドビーめ -- so if you want to be humble to the point of groveling, maybe you could just stick a め on the end of your name.

DON'T learn Japanese from Dobby! Or Hagrid; his use of honorifics is ridiculous. Really, don't learn speech patterns from crazy Harry Potter characters.

「うちのネコです」 sound like when you're talking about your family or things of that nature. (My husband, my daughter, my cat...) I see that pretty frequently. Did she use うち for all her sentences which had personal pronoun or just ones like that?

PrettyKitty Wrote:「うちのネコです」 sound like when you're talking about your family or things of that nature. (My husband, my daughter, my cat...) I see that pretty frequently. Did she use うち for all her sentences which had personal pronoun or just ones like that?

Agreed, this is probably more than just use as a pronoun, it definitely implies familiarity etc.