Thora Wrote:

Serge Wrote:So is anyone reading the new Murakami's book "1Q84" yet? :-) I picked up volume one during lunch break this afternoon and started the first chapter. I'm not a Murakami fan and am pretty certain I'll hate the story but it's the novelty factor of being one of the first, I guess. Also, the language is so deceptively easy...

Wow, you are quick - I read it was being released in Japan on May 29! Let us know what you think of it. (You too Evil Dragon) Why you dislike Murakami, Serge? I've avoided him only because I'm new to Japanese literature and heard he writes in a unique English-translated-to-Japanese style.

They released it on Thursday, two days earlier.

And the reason I dislike his writing is summed up by someone in comments on this website: http://howtojaponese.com/2009/05/27/q-te...omment-258

tim from the website Wrote:I know nothing about this book, but let me venture a guess or two about it.
Book 1:
- some dude with no job or in a state of employment limbo encounters weird/attractive person, gets some odd assignment
- nothing happens for several chapters
- dude makes some pasta
- nothing happens
- dude listens to jazz and/or classical music
- nothing happens
- dude gets a phone call
- based on the aforementioned encounter, dude begins some bizarre adventure in which he contemplates time, history, and evildoers. Waxes nostalgic, too.

Book 2:
- random nonsensical phenomena manifest themselves and have nothing to do with the adventure
- dude goes on a journey to a remote part of Japan, like Hokkaido or Tohoku
- dude has some secretly meaningful encounter
- dude returns to his everyday life, but nothing’s the same
- dude feels keen sense of loss for some reason
- the end"

After reading 3-4 of his books a few years back, I feel that is exactly how they ALL go (with a possible exception of his non-fiction stuff). I'm only a few chapters into the new book by now but it definitely shows some signs of the above. The novelty factor prevails, though, so I'll keep reading!

So I'm not the only one who doesn't like Murakami... I read one book in English(Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World), and...well, some things were good but a lot annoyed/bored me. After that I started Wind Up Bird Chronicles, but I quit that one pretty fast. It was mundane and rather vulgar, not the image the title game me, anyway.

On another note, the English version was full of technobabble and obscure vocabulary. Nothing I'd consider easy be any means if the Japanese is half as difficult. I only managed a little over 1 chapter of the Japanese version at the time.

mentat_kgs Wrote:Yeah, haruhi has ultra long sentences. It is the hardest thing to read I've found until now, even if it does not require much vocabulary.

OMG I'm not the only one to suffer then !
thanks pal you've made my day!
I was utterly chastizing myself for not being able to understand those 4 lines long sentences of which kyon seems to be fond of ..... I guess it has to do with the philosophical-comtemplative-cynical attitude he took ... and that makes a remarkable contrast with the ツンデ haruhi character.

Most Japanese fiction has very long sentences. Four lines is nothing. Some books have sentences that go on for several pages.

Jarvik7 Wrote:Most Japanese fiction has very long sentences. Four lines is nothing. Some books have sentences that go on for several pages.

...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
c'mon where I put my prozac pills bottle ?

thanks for wasting my day BTW would you mind to give some titles for my sleepless nights and period of excess of confidence ?

ghinzdra Wrote:c'mon where I put my prozac pills bottle ?

thanks for wasting my day BTW would you mind to give some titles for my sleepless nights and period of excess of confidence ?

Well you can see it this way: if there's a lot of books with long sentences, you'll grow accustomed to them faster. If it was only one book, it probably wouldn't be enough.

With those sentences you only have to learn to "go with the flow", taking the information in as you follow along, knowing that you will understand at the end of the sentence. It's different from English, it takes a little "trust", but it's not hard.

Yeah I know I ve been training for that exercice.... especially since JPLT reading really pays off...
What's bothering me ...is that's it extremely dull .I mean
-I'm ripping off anime thanks to sub2srs ,
-I have my fair share of news of thanks to FNN & yomiuri podcast
-I found a good way to cash in on manga through snapshot soft like greensoft and raw manga website
-I play japanese games for a while now thanks to a good ds website,
- I'm really into j-music since I discovered 押忍　戦え　応援団 , goo music (which allows you to copy lyrics on the contrary of utanet , utamap and basically 99% of j-music oriented lyrics database that prevents this as they're written in flash . Otherwise until now I just had to use wikilyrics whose content is still scarce. ) and karaoke soft. Those last days I have been listening nothing but yellow monkeys .

but even if I CAN read a light novel it's still as engrossing for me as reading the phone book....

ghinzdra Wrote:but even if I CAN read a light novel it's still as engrossing for me as reading the phone book....

Then change light novel/book until the above statement ceases to be true

I'm a big fan of haruhi.... I totally dig the anime ,which mean I have the interest to read AND the context , and as Jarvik said 4 lines long sentences aren't that much of an ordeal......
If I don't get into haruhi light novel then I'm basically out of business.

No I just have to go through.... Reading speed has a lot to do with the pleasure. And reading speed is mainly about getting accustomed to key word and expression....
And as I know almost all the joyos it's definetely about getting enough input so that it becomes totally natural .

Just depends on what your reading I guess. A lot of anime is based of light novels, maybe you could read some series that you know you like?

*edit* whoops didn't notice your post after that...

bombpersons Wrote:Just depends on what your reading I guess. A lot of anime is based of light novels, maybe you could read some series that you know you like?

hence haruhi

ghinzdra Wrote:I'm a big fan of haruhi.... I totally dig the anime ,which mean I have the interest to read AND the context , and as Jarvik said 4 lines long sentences aren't that much of an ordeal......
If I don't get into haruhi light novel then I'm basically out of business.

No I just have to go through.... Reading speed has a lot to do with the pleasure. And reading speed is mainly about getting accustomed to key word and expression....
And as I know almost all the joyos it's definetely about getting enough input so that it becomes totally natural .

The point is not so obvious. First of all, the fact that you like the anime does not make for a 100% probability that you will like the light novel. Writing style and pace count, and when you already know what's going to happen, it's always slightly less fun imho.

But even if you can potentially like it, if reading it is boring for you now, it means that it's not the right time to read it. You can find stuff that hooks you just as much as Haruhi but is a more pleasant read in that particular moment. Then, when you'll be ready, Haruhi will suck you in automatically. Forcing yourself is never good.
If you don't hate Khatzumoto, read this very pertinent article.

oh about Haruhi's light novels. Well for me, I like the anime alot but I don't like the light novels much. I read vol1 in Japanese and it was just a drag to read, not because of my low Japanese level or because I alrdy watched the anime and so that made it boring or anything like that (I read it 2009, and watched the show 2006- so there's like a 3year gap at least)... I just don't like the light novel. I'm like with the reviwers who gave 1-2-3 stars for haruhi on amazon.co.jp. It's hard to explain... I just know I don't like it. KyoAni did a real good job with their adaptation.

i was thinking of getting that haruhi book. Is the kanji level hard in that book? i assume it has no furigana what so ever.

I've never seen anything post-Meiji that had sentences taking up multiple pages.

ta12121 Wrote:i was thinking of getting that haruhi book. Is the kanji level hard in that book? i assume it has no furigana what so ever.

I remember taking a look at the vocab analysis and it had around 18,000 words.

that's a lot of words. Hmmm I might still get it.

ta12121 Wrote:i was thinking of getting that haruhi book. Is the kanji level hard in that book? i assume it has no furigana what so ever.

I don't own it, but the first Haruhi novel was re-released for grade/middle schoolers with 100% furigana: http://www.bk1.jp/product/03133161 / http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/produ...046310286/

ta12121 Wrote:that's a lot of words. Hmmm I might still get it.

You mean you don't already have them? Thought everyone who read raseru's--I mean uh, yeah, nevermind... *whistles tunelessly*

ta12121 Wrote:i was thinking of getting that haruhi book. Is the kanji level hard in that book? i assume it has no furigana what so ever.

Haruhi has SOME furigana. Most light novels do have some furigana, though not with common kanji.

Haruhi would not be my choice. Haruhi has some weird-ass grammar and vocabulary.

I read キッチン. It's quite approachable language about everyday things, and fairly short. So everyday that nothing interesting happens throughout the book. 陰日向に咲く was okay. It's made up of short stories, so it's easier to approach. Apparently it was going to be made into a film or something.

I've read a few short Haruki Murakami bunko, but they were very boring and uneventful. I can only imagine that his regular novels are very different, otherwise I don't understand his popularity at all.

Fillanzea Wrote:

ta12121 Wrote:i was thinking of getting that haruhi book. Is the kanji level hard in that book? i assume it has no furigana what so ever.

Haruhi has SOME furigana. Most light novels do have some furigana, though not with common kanji.

Haruhi would not be my choice. Haruhi has some weird-ass grammar and vocabulary.

I've recently started reading Haruhi, my first "large" piece of Japanese reading. Yeah, the vocab is kind of...difficult, but I don't think it degrades my enjoyment of the story, nor impeding my learning.

A good thing I've learned about Rikaichan is that if "(P)" is not included at the end of the definition of the word, it's generally not too common of a word. I forget how they determine this, but it's helpful.

Asriel Wrote:A good thing I've learned about Rikaichan is that if "(P)" is not included at the end of the definition of the word, it's generally not too common of a word. I forget how they determine this, but it's helpful.

Hey, thanks for telling me this. It is extremely helpful.

Yea i downloaded the file raseru posted. I forgot it had haruhi!!! (better start srsing that, so i can get the book in a few months and be better accustomed to it.)

Asriel Wrote:A good thing I've learned about Rikaichan is that if "(P)" is not included at the end of the definition of the word, it's generally not too common of a word. I forget how they determine this, but it's helpful.

That's the standard EDICT (P) 'priority' marker of the most common 20,000 or so words; see the section on 'word priority marking' on this page. Looks like it's from a newspaper frequency list plus some other sources and some hand tweaking. There is a caveat:

Quote:there are clearly some marked entries which are not very common, and there are clearly unmarked entries which are in common use, particularly in the spoken language

but I imagine it's mostly accurate enough.